Reel Turf Techs Podcast

Episode 135: Ron McCall

• Trent Manning • Episode 135

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In this episode, we chat with Ron McCall, Equipment Manager at The Highlands at Harbor Springs Resort, home to 81 holes of golf. With over 40 years in the industry, Ron shares his inspiring journey from owning a lawn care company to becoming a self-taught expert technician and advocate for veterans in golf.
Ron recounts how a health setback led him to start walking greens as a groundskeeper, sparking his fascination with equipment maintenance after a bedknife revelation. A United States Air Force veteran, Ron emphasizes the value of camaraderie, proactive communication, and fostering a welcoming shop atmosphere.
We also explore:
The transition from superintendent and irrigation tech back to the shop.
The benefits of playing golf to understand its impact on the course.
Building a strong network of superintendents, equipment managers, and distributors in Michigan.
The importance of record-keeping and relationship-building.
Advocacy for turf technician education and veteran employment through Ron’s initiative, hireavet4golf.org.
Ron’s story is a testament to his passion for learning and the power of connection in the turf industry. Tune in to be inspired! 

Trent Manning:

Welcome to the reel turf techs podcast for the technician that wants to get reel follow along. As we talk to industry professionals and address hot topics that we all face along the way we'll learn tips and tricks. I'm your host, Trent. Manning let's have some​this episode are real turf techs on golf course industries Superintendent radio network is presented by Foley county a strong supporter of equipment technicians and golf course maintenance departments everywhere Foley county offers a proven solution for above and below the turf for turf professionals To learn more about Foley company's line of real grinders bed knife grinders and the air to G2 family of products or to find a distributor visit www dot Foley C o.com Foley Ready for play Welcome to the Real Turf Techs podcast, episode 135. Today, we're talking to Ron McCall, equipment manager at the Highlands at Harbor Springs in Harbor Springs, Michigan. The Highlands is a 81 hole golf resort. Ron has two technicians working with him in the shop. He has mostly Toro, a little bit of John Deere and Kubota tractors and some TX and Pro Gators. Let's talk to Ron. Welcome Ron to the real turf connects podcast. Thanks for coming on. How you doing,

Ron McCall:

to be here. I'm great.

Trent Manning:

I appreciate you being here. Tell us how you got into the turf industry.

Ron McCall:

I got into the turf industry because I actually owned a lawn company. And every week, I went to the driving range on the way to play in the league, and It was a small nine hole executive course with a driving range. I went there and hit some balls and the owner came out one day and I was in the, I owned a landscaping company and he asked me who maintained my equipment. I said, well, I'm one guy, I can't afford to pay someone to do it, so I learned how to do it myself. And he said, would you be interested in working on my equipment? And that was close to 40 years ago.

Trent Manning:

Oh, wow. Okay.

Ron McCall:

So I bartered unlimited golf and driving range privileges for working on his reels. That's how I started working on equipment. And

Trent Manning:

I don't, did you have like grinders at your house or shop or

Ron McCall:

No, I went to Toro back then,

Trent Manning:

Okay.

Ron McCall:

Distributors in Auburn Hills, yep.

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ron McCall:

And self taught the whole time, never really had a mentor, just started doing and started learning and started researching and really never looked back, so.

Trent Manning:

How hard was it to find resources 40 years ago on turf equipment? Oh,

Ron McCall:

you know, Lapeer County, there were a lot of golf courses, so I reached out to them and, you know, talked to some of the equipment guys there, and even back then, there was, I mean, there was a lot of things that were just unknown, you know, old school guys that, you know, were mechanics someplace at one point in time and started working on golf stuff just like we did. Resources were definitely harder to find back then because, you know, lack of internet. I mean, I actually bought my first cell phone when I had my landscaping company and I thought that was the, you know, the deal. You know,

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ron McCall:

3 watt bag phone. I went out in the middle of the lake with my, in my boat and made a phone call just because I could.

Trent Manning:

Huh. No, that's yeah, you're living high on the hog then.

Ron McCall:

oh yeah,

Trent Manning:

Yeah, that's something else. Yeah, so how'd you end up at the golf course turning wrenches?

Ron McCall:

Well, I I worked on equipment, you know, off and on. I've always been a golfer. And in 2012, I was in an accident. And after surgeries and rehab and all of that and being out of work five years, um, I was, you know, I had gone from 200 pounds to almost 300 pounds. I was like, what can I do to lose weight? And there was a local car right around the corner from me and they were looking for a greenskeeper. And I went in, I interviewed, he hired me on the spot, I started the next day. And I was walking 13 greens with an old Toro 500, never done it before. Um, you know, it's it was interesting because I mowed and the mower was barely, you know, it was just barely cutting. And I got done and I went up to see the owner and he says, well, what do you think? And I said, well, it needs to be adjusted. It needs to be ground. And he goes, well, can you do that? And I said, I can, you know, we'll see what's there. And I went out and I was given the mower. And I just went out and, you know, did what they told me to do because I was the brand new guy, you know, and I Deck up and there wasn't even a bed knife on it. And I was like, Wow.

Trent Manning:

Okay.

Ron McCall:

Yep, literally. So I went to the owner and I said, there's not a bed knife on this mower. And he goes, well you'd think that the superintendent might know that because he's the mechanic. I'm like, hey, you know, just the guy, you know. And he goes, well can you fix it? And I found another one that had a bed knife on there and I pulled that off because it had a bad transmission, I guess. Pulled the bedknife off, did what I could with what was there and hand filed the reel and hand filed the bedknife. Number nine green I'll never forget was right outside the little shop which was the pump house also. I made a little test cut and it was like parting the Red Seas. Was committed. They had been

Trent Manning:

yeah.

Ron McCall:

mowing for almost four months without a bedknife. Yeah.

Trent Manning:

yeah, I don't even understand.

Ron McCall:

No concept. No concept. So I was committed then and you know, I mowed that green and went and did the rest of them and stayed on that. And at the end of the season he says, How'd you like to be the superintendent next year? And I'm like, Okay. So my first year really in the industry after, you know, a couple months I was a superintendent and I did that for a year and a half and then went from a lot of the, you know, just a little public course and great family course. And I ended up, I went into the private sector. That's when

Trent Manning:

Okay.

Ron McCall:

I went full time with Wah Bee Country Club. And I was the second super irrigation tech and changing cups and tees and stayed with them for six years.

Trent Manning:

Oh, wow. Okay.

Ron McCall:

and Even though I wasn't there full time, I actually became a tech in the interim at a, back at the public sector. I was at Beacon Hill and Brentwood and that's where I really learned, you know, good friend of mine that I had met when I was actually the superintendent, he was the equipment manager out at Beacon Hill and Brentwood in commerce and I reached out to him and he needed help. So I helped him. Two weeks later he gave notice. I'm like, what are

Trent Manning:

Oh, wow.

Ron McCall:

He goes, well, I needed someone here that I knew was going to do a good job because I've got an opportunity. So, I got really just thrown right into it. So, had a great time there and you know, like I said, I've always for lack of better terms, excelled. I work hard. I do, I thrive on education and you know, so I learn as much as I possibly can. I don't like to pay people to do stuff in my personal life, so If I can buy the tool and do it right, I prefer to do it that way. So that's what I did. I invested in tools and learned and put the time in and, you know, and here we are.

Trent Manning:

that's awesome, that's a good story where did you get most of I know early on, it was hard to find resources, but yeah. Where do you go now or earlier in your career? Where'd you go to find, you know, like tech manuals and, you know, straight to the distributor or.

Ron McCall:

to the distributor, Spartan. I've, you know, I've been to Toro University. I've gone out to Minneapolis. um, the most of the time I've had, you know, in the public sector, I had a lot of used equipment. Um, You know, so it was, there's a big learning curve. Started with old Jake's and started with old John Deere, you know, greens, mowers, all triplexes. And then when I got the opportunity in the private sector, I went out to, you know, to my turf or use my turf a lot for my manuals, but I went out to Minneapolis out to, you know, to the Toro school. And it was eyeopening because, you know, you see the R and D and you see what's really going on. You know, and then that, fortunately I was able to really connect with a lot of guys. You know, Bob Smith, who, who's down in Texas,

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ron McCall:

He and I went to the same, at the same time. So we stayed in contact all this time. Yep. So, you know, and I hate, you know, I'm a, I would say I'm a professional networker, so I believe in, I don't believe in burning bridges, Shaking hands, and kissing babies and making friends. Because you never know who is going to win. who someone knows, I guess you'd say, you know, and it's like we being a veteran, you know, because I'm having, you know, I'm an U. S. Air Force veteran and being a veteran. And so you have that brotherhood. And I, you know, I look at the golf industry as big as the industry is, or even as small as the state of Michigan is, there's a ton of courses, but we're really a small family.

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Ron McCall:

you know, so being able to reach out to somebody and make that phone call, if you have a question. is, you know, is really important. So I've done my best to build those relationships. And, you know, I like to learn, but I don't know everything. And I'm the first one to admit it. You know, you're, I believe that it's a good day when you learn something.

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. No, I'm with you. I want to learn something new every single day. And I would say 99 percent of them. I do. Maybe even more than that. I mean, it's, you know, it's crazy what you might learn and who you may learn it from, you know, from. Yeah, they could be the lowest person on the crew. You might can learn something from them just because they had different experiences, you know, whatever.

Ron McCall:

It goes to the saying, you know, think outside the box. I mean, there's always more than one way to do something. And, You know, my way may not always be the most efficient. It's you know, that's the biggest thing is that, you know, we're in an industry that as we learn and as we repair equipment, we want to do it right. But we want to do it efficiently and cost effectively. You know, I believe in being a good steward of my employer's money. So I don't like to really spend money unless I have to. So if I can make something or I can repair something properly, you know, and get it back on the course, it's, I'm a lot better off and so is my employer. So,

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah, for sure. And like you said,

Ron McCall:

makes a big difference.

Trent Manning:

this industry is so small. There might be 15, 000 golf courses, but it's a small industry and most everybody knows everybody and if you don't you'll get to know him and it's, I mean, it's crazy how things come full circle. I've been telling the story a good bit. Um, here lately. So we're under renovation right now. We closed in at Labor Day and the construction superintendent that works for Donick Golf. They're based out of Minnesota. Um, when I started in 1995 at the golf course I'm currently at, he was the irrigation tech on the crew with me. And now he's the construction superintendent working for this, you know, huge company, um, you know,

Ron McCall:

project.

Trent Manning:

yeah, running the project. And I mean, to be fair, he went on, you know, he was, I don't know, he's probably five years older than me, maybe seven years older than me. Um, and not too long at he'd stayed there another year or two, he was going to school for turf grass and, He got an assistance job and then he was superintendent for probably 20 years at a golf course and then now he's working for Dunick, but I mean, it's just so cool, but you know to come full circle like that What's your least favorite part of the job

Ron McCall:

Wow, that's a loaded question. Um,

Trent Manning:

Do you have a least favorite do you just really enjoy all

Ron McCall:

believe I, I don't really believe I have the least favorite. You know, that goes into the pet peeves. I mean, I love what I do because it's always something different. You know, you never know what's going to walk through the door. It's always a challenge. And if you look at it that, you know, I have a firm belief that equipment managers and technicians, you know, were there to fix stuff. Um, I literally say grass grows and shit breaks and that's why I have a career in this industry.

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ron McCall:

It's very simple, you know. But the issue is that you know, the saying is that a lot of equipment guys and technicians, they're hotheads. And, you know, and I'm not saying I don't have a temper occasionally, and, you know, I want things done certain ways because if I don't have structure for what I do, I'll never catch up. So my pet peeve is that if you break something, let me know if you know, something, if you go to use a piece of equipment, it doesn't start, don't grab another piece of equipment and just leave it sitting there and go on about your day. Let me know that something's broken because I can't fix it if I don't know what's broken. And, you know, I can always find something to do. There's always something to do, but I'd rather make sure that when my operators get on the piece of equipment, that it's operating properly, it's safe. And the after cut appearance and what I do directly affects the plague, you know? So. If I not, if I can't do that because it's sitting in the shop and no one tells me that it's broken in a storage building, I don't, I can't deal with it. So that's a, it's a struggle. You know, now all of a sudden when something does break. It's the same operator, possibly, that says, Oh, well, I, you know, can you grab another one? Well, I left the other one in the shop over in the other building because it wouldn't start this morning. So now they get, now I have two pieces of equipment to fix. So that, you know, so it all goes into communication and it all goes into, you know, and it's For lack of better terms, being a veteran, I believe in respect. It doesn't show respect to the technicians. It doesn't show respect to the superintendents when you don't communicate with them. Let them know that something's broken. And that, unfortunately, is the stigma that we get as equipment managers. that we're hotheads. Well, we get upset because we don't get communicated with when something does break.

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ron McCall:

so then everyone has a fear about coming to you when something does break. And I understand it. And that's a hard hurdle to get over.

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yeah. And especially, you know, once it gets set up there and, um, I mean, I'm guilty just like a lot of us are, you know, it's hard some days. That's the last thing you want to see coming through the door.

Ron McCall:

it's like a revolving door of broken stuff. And, you know, you know, like, when is it going to end, you know? So

Trent Manning:

Yep. What's your favorite tool?

Ron McCall:

my favorite tool recently is this great little tool that's called a tight reach extension. And, it's, all it is a, it's a piece of, there's multiple sizes, and you can hold a nut, you can hold a bolt, and there's three different lengths, and, you know, you have that one spot you go to reach in, and you got to put it between the last two digits of your fingers, and you're trying to hold it, And then you're trying to put a bolt in to get it started. The tight reach extension will hold it. You just reach in there and it clamps down. It's a really cool product.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, I'm I'm Googling it right now. To see what I've been missing out on here.

Ron McCall:

I have

Trent Manning:

me again what it is.

Ron McCall:

It's called a tight reach extension and it's, they make a couple of different products.

Trent Manning:

What I'm saying is like a ratcheting wrench.

Ron McCall:

make a ratcheting wrench also. So what that is that you can actually put a ratchet in the end of it and a socket on the other end of it. and reach in, but the other one is actually just a holder. All it does is hold. I have all three links. And, you know, I'm the guy that when the auto parts guy walks in and says, I got this really cool thing, you know, I'm like, all right. So he showed it to me. I'm like, all right, I'll take, let me have two. I give one to my assistant and then I have one. And then they said, well, there's a three piece set. All right, well, give me the whole, give them all to

Trent Manning:

Right. Right.

Ron McCall:

You know, once. One's 18 and one's 12 and one's six inches or something like that. So,

Trent Manning:

Okay. That's cool. Yeah. I have to have to check into that a little bit more. What do you do to relax or find your balance?

Ron McCall:

well, I am a avid golfer, always have, so I play golf usually two or three days a week with the crew. Um, you know, a lot of the, you know, I'm on the state committee for the equipment managers. I'm the co chair of the committee and Mitch from Traverse City Country Club, he and I, we generally get together At least every other week and play a round of golf someplace,

Trent Manning:

Oh, nice.

Ron McCall:

talk, talk, shop and you know, and then you know, I'm a, I, believe it or not, I'm still an outdoor guy. I might I mow my lawn and you know, I weed whip and I blow off my sidewalks at the house. And then and the, probably the big thing for me is I'm an avid movie guy. So my relaxation is sitting in front of the, you know, the TV and watching a good movie and be it a comedy or be it a. You know, an action movie or something like that, but that's my wind down time.

Trent Manning:

That's good stuff. Yeah. Nothing better than a game of golf, right? Yeah.

Ron McCall:

It's amazing

Trent Manning:

it relax you?

Ron McCall:

guys, yeah, because, you know, I have a solid game, but my, I had a teaching pro at one time and he says, Ron, you're not getting paid to play. Go out and enjoy yourself. You know, I do my best and everybody gets frustrated, but it was, it's right. You know, it's like. I'm not going to be a pro. I'm not getting paid to play. So let's just go out and play. And if I hit a bad shot, I mean, you look at the numbers. A pro only hits the fairway 62 percent of the time. If I hit it 30 percent of the time, I should be pretty damn happy.

Trent Manning:

Ah, yeah, that's, I mean, that's a good way to look at it. Yeah,

Ron McCall:

you know,

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ron McCall:

can't beat yourself up about, you know, being half as good as a guy that's making 5 million a year playing, you know, every single day. So,

Trent Manning:

No, that's a really good way to look at it. If I would've looked at it that way when I first started, maybe I would've continued on, but I just got so frustrated and said, this ain't for me. It ain't the game for me.

Ron McCall:

Well, I hold a firm belief that equipment guys, whether it's a technician, whether it's a, you know, an equipment manager, you really should play some, you really need to understand, you know, what you do directly affects what they do. The clients, whether'cause I'm at a resort, whether the resort guests are getting the best game that they can, or in the private industry, the members are getting what they want. Even if you just go out and put, you know, let the guys mow the grass, go out and put the green and see what it's doing. So that you can, you know, truly understand that what you're doing directly affects that play. It's really important. It's, it surprises me how many equipment guys in the industry don't even play golf.

Trent Manning:

I'm one of those, I'm one of those guys that doesn't play golf, but

Ron McCall:

But you understand picking a putter up and hitting it on a green and, you know, watching the roll and see what it does and if it doesn't roll smooth or all of that stuff. So. You know, and that, that's

Trent Manning:

and I do understand the game pretty good, and I understand what we're trying to accomplish. With smoothness and firmness and you know, all those things and how I can be assistance to that with mower set up and those kinds of things, what's been your biggest challenge?

Ron McCall:

The biggest challenge, um, The biggest challenge would be finding young guys that come into the industry.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, I heard that.

Ron McCall:

There's,

Trent Manning:

Yeah, it's tough.

Ron McCall:

it's tough. I mean, I had an ad out for seven months and not one applicant for an assistant.

Trent Manning:

yeah. Crazy.

Ron McCall:

That's the biggest struggle. And it's not just in the technician side of it. It's all the way across the board. You know, you know, I got, I served in the military. I, after I got out of the military, I actually applied for pro golf management school and I got accepted. I had a solid game for handicap came back from playing overseas. And then I decided I didn't want to go back to school again. I never thought about getting into the agronomy side of it. Never even thought about it. Never crossed my mind. And it's so finding someone that plays golf and then can golf for free, unlimited, usually, you know, depending on where you're at, um, that wants to make a good career and make a good, you know, make a good living and have a good career. It's, you know, it's a struggle.

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Ron McCall:

You know, I mean, finding the young bucks to come up and do what we do, they're just not there. You know, so, that's one of the things we're doing in the state of Michigan is we're reaching out to the colleges and, you know, we released a video to, you know, To do just that, to transition someone from maybe an automotive or small engine repair into the golf industry. So, um,

Trent Manning:

the thing. I mean, there's people getting into automotive for sure, and not that they're, I'm sure they have their own struggles, but I do think there's some of those kids that enjoy playing golf. That enjoy turning wrenches. That would be a perfect fit for a golf course. They just don't know about us. They

Ron McCall:

Yeah, so that's a big struggle. So that would be our biggest struggle is to find that person. Be it for the guy that's gonna go out and mow the greens or run the weed whip or rake bunkers or, you know, get on the machine and, you know, mow fairways and mow rough. The, there's the opportunities are there, especially when you get into a bigger club that's willing to send you to school,

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Ron McCall:

It's a, you know, it's a great industry. It's a great opportunity, but getting it out there and letting people know that's probably, that would be my biggest struggle in the industry right now.

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. Oh, I would agree with that. I've been fortunate the last couple of years to you know, handpick somebody off the crew, you know, and it just worked out well. But who knows when they leave, what I'm going to do next. You know, it's always

Ron McCall:

Well, the struggle with a crew and that, you know, I've done my best to do that. Also, my struggle with a crew is they see what I go through every day. You know, when you've got six or 7 million of equipment, you've got 81 holes, you're running it out of one shop and they see it. They're like, they're just, I don't know how you do it. I'm like, well, we barely are. I couldn't do it. So,

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ron McCall:

like, you know, you're, you've created your own monster. And they're like, well, that's not for me.

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Ron McCall:

So,

Trent Manning:

Well, you said you didn't have a mentor in the industry. You have anybody that that comes to mind of superintendent or an old boss or. Yeah.

Ron McCall:

years at Wabi Country Club. He's now just recently retired. He was a Marine. I was, I'm an Air Force guy. So we got along really good. We had a lot of structure. We had a lot of, you know, similarities. Um, when I left Wabik, I went to Flint. I was actually the assistant superintendent and the equipment manager simultaneously at Flint Golf Club. And I went there and worked with Alex Lincoln, who's now over at the lakes over and over near Pickney. And we still communicate, um, a lot. And it, you know, um, you know, John Gray, a lot of people know John Gray. You know, I worked with him and helped him out. He doesn't have an equipment guy. He's got a nine hole course over Birmingham. And, you know, now I'm at a course where I have two superintendents and, you know, there's, you know, I work real closely with, you know, with Seth from, you know, that's down in Oakland County still. And he's at St. John's and, you know, Mitch at Traverse City Country Club. And, you know, even though I've never had anyone that for lack of better terms, groomed me to do what I do. We all communicate to the point where we have an issue or we can't figure something out or, you know, we reach out to them, you know, I've done my best to build a really good relationship with Spartan Distributors, which is now, you know, um, we have, it's just, you know, you have Tom down in Auburn Hills and John Garlitz who's been around the industry for over 30 years and, You know, those guys, you know, you make a phone call and, you know, they're there to help. And even those guys don't know it all. You know, it's amazing that you have that much time in the industry and, you know, so. But those relationships make a big difference, especially when you have a, unfortunately you had a piece of equipment catch on fire last year. You know, and you gotta reach out to them and say, what do we do? And, you know, the, you know, we have a big fleet, so, you know, we were able to get some of it covered and some of it we had to cover. So,

Trent Manning:

That's good though. Yeah. I mean, it is a partnership between these dealers and the course a lot of times. And I mean, we've been very fortunate with our distributors down here, you know, and kind of the same deal. We had a, or a similar deal. We had a, an equip a fire in our shop, um, been like a year and a half ago. And it was crazy. Everybody that reached out. Hey, you need something. You want to borrow a mower? You know, I mean, from dealers, distributors to our neighboring courses. Can we do anything to help you? You know, I mean, just super nice to to have that. And we, you know, we would do the same thing for them.

Ron McCall:

right.

Trent Manning:

What's one of the strangest things you've seen around the golf course?

Ron McCall:

Around the course, well, the strangest thing I saw in the shop is, I was, it was actually at Wabik. They said, well, can you fix this mower? You know, look at this. It was a push mower, it wouldn't start. You know, Toro, fixed wheel. Like, I go over to it, there was no, the pull cord handle was a piece, it was a stick. And it had been on there so, I asked them, I said, how long has this been there? They said, about eight years. And there was a, and I was new there. But there was a drawer full of handles. They just never said anything about it, and it was on there so long that it actually wore a groove in the center of it from the rope.

Trent Manning:

Nice.

Ron McCall:

I still have it. It's in my toolbox.

Trent Manning:

That's a good memento to hang on to.

Ron McCall:

yep, so, but well, it, you know, there's not really anything I've been fortunate I haven't had a rollover. But I've had a lot of, you know, a lot of guys have experienced rollovers at their career. I know I've had a lot of equipment stuck in bunkers and a lot of, you know, swamps and, you know, get a little too close to a little, a pond and sucks that wheel right in. I mean, I, when I got to Wah Bee, I mowed greens. I drove right behind the green, didn't know there was a drain there. I got the mower stuck my second day there.

Trent Manning:

Oh, wow. Yep.

Ron McCall:

you should know better. And I'm like, I've been here two days out. Oh, I know there's a drain there, you know? So, but I mean, I've seen sprayers stuck in areas that shouldn't be at. And, you know, you see it all, but I don't know if there's anything really, that's so off the wall, unusual that no one else has ever seen.

Trent Manning:

Well, what would be your dream job or opportunity?

Ron McCall:

My dream job opportunity would be to create a turf school, actually. Yeah. Not,

Trent Manning:

do it. Let's do it right now.

Ron McCall:

I really, I mean, I really want to do a turf school. I want to, you know, just like the Motorcycle Institute down in Orlando, but I'd like to have a turf school that when you, when someone makes a decision to transition to turf they come in, whether it be a certificate, whether it be a two year program, and really teach people what to do, how to do it, how to do it right, teach them on all the, you know, as much as you possibly can. And have a real school for turf industry. It doesn't exist,

Trent Manning:

Yeah, no, I would love to see it. And I think the biggest reason we don't have one is, you know, nobody knows about it. So where are you, where to find the students? And I think that's what they run into. The ones, the programs that were established like Lake City Community College, you know, just not enough interest, not enough people getting into it.

Ron McCall:

believe the hurdle is that they don't understand the opportunity. The income of bail, you know, how you can make a really good living in this industry. Um, that, It's not as hard as you'd think and it's, you know, there's this belief that, I don't know, I mean, I never really struggled and I say it didn't struggle, I had to learn all of that, but it's like I, I thrived on gaining the knowledge, so I put myself out there to learn, you know, and now, you know, it's like, how do you get, you know, we already discussed it, it's like, where do you get these young guys to come in? We've reached out to the community colleges reach, we're reaching out to the vote tax. You know, we've sent this video out that we created that, you know, it's like, what do you do? You know, and first is to get the word out there and Then, but then you have to have a place for them to go. Do you, you know, we're in the process of creating a mentor program here in the state of Michigan that, you know, we can be there for these guys if you really wanna get into it and you ha wanna make a phone call, pick up the phone, call us and we'll help you out. And, you know, that's the starting phases of it. I it's a struggle,

Trent Manning:

Yeah, now it is a struggle and I think that's great though, what y'all are doing with that. And I remember talking to Seth when he was at Oakland Hills about, hey, let's trade assistance for a week. I mean, how cool would that be? And you know, and not that the, you know, it just hadn't worked out yet. I hadn't gave up on the idea. But I would love to send my assistant up there to work with him in Oakland Hills for a week and he can send his down to work with me. And I think that would be beneficial for everybody involved. You know, hopefully

Ron McCall:

different set of hands. Always see something different and then always learn something different.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, it would be awesome. I mean, I would really enjoy that as much as hopefully they would enjoy that. So, and I don't, I think we can, you know, do that. I don't know exactly what it looks like and how we make ends meet, but I think it can be done.

Ron McCall:

well, with the big players, you know, if we can get everybody on board, be it a scholarship program, be it, however, there is a way to do it so, you know, because, first of all, I mean, if you're swipped, if you're swapping to swap, then you have another body. But if you don't, you know, then they have to figure out travel. Then you have to figure out, you know, so maybe it's a scholarship program that the, you know, the red and the green and the orange, they get involved and, you know, they you know, they help out with some travel and stuff like that.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, no, that would be awesome too. I wouldn't care if anybody wants to come and work a week with me in my shop, doing whatever I'm doing that week. Come on. You know, that, that would be really cool. Do you have a technician you would like to work with for a day?

Ron McCall:

You know, I'd like to work with JD

Trent Manning:

I don't know, who's J. D.?

Ron McCall:

Patterson

Trent Manning:

okay, j. P. Yeah yeah, yep. He's his name's got dropped quite a few times for that, and I don't blame you at all. He's awesome.

Ron McCall:

Well, and he just has that dynamic, um, he's got a good attitude about it,

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah, for sure,

Ron McCall:

about just about the job and the industry and the career, you know, it's like, you know, and then, you know, then the knowledge. So it's you know, even just to go and see a shop and spend a week with them would be, I believe would be, you know, really interesting.

Trent Manning:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. If you ever down Atlanta way, you hit me up and we'll go by JP's. Okay. Yeah.

Ron McCall:

might be down, I might be in Franklin on Thursday. I got a funeral to go to actually.

Trent Manning:

Oh, no. No. Franklin, North Carolina.

Ron McCall:

Yep. Yeah we're a founding family, Franklin, North Carolina. So if I make, I might fly into either Asheville or Atlanta on Wednesday. So.

Trent Manning:

Got you. Well, if you have any

Ron McCall:

through town right now, actually. As we speak, they're probably driving by your house.

Trent Manning:

Oh, okay. Alright.

Ron McCall:

They left this morning to go to Newport Ritchie. So,

Trent Manning:

Gotcha. Get ready for tips and tricks. What kind of tips and tricks you got for us?

Ron McCall:

Oh, something there's something that I have never done. And we just JP actually just came into and taught at our seminar that we had here in Michigan. And one of the things that he had that he does, and I've never done it, is grinding your bed knife down to half the width of your cutting height.

Trent Manning:

Yeah,

Ron McCall:

Never done that. Never even thought about it.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, I'm pretty. Yeah, I mean, I can't say maybe there's a lot of people doing that, but I don't think there's a ton of people doing that and I'm not,

Ron McCall:

I just thought it was an interesting concept.

Trent Manning:

I don't know if he was the first one to do that, but yeah, no, I think it's super interesting and especially mowing at super low heights. I know, I mean, in the early 2000s, there was guys grinding the backside of the bed knife so they could get it down lower. But I don't know of anybody, you know, grinding off the top face to get a certain front face thickness. But why not? I mean, that's a great idea. Right,

Ron McCall:

and the other big tip and trick is that I swear by is making sure that all your reels are the same diameter. You know, do your best to mate your reels up on your machines. Um, you know, what I've seen in the industry is that a lot of guys are struggling with why is there a darker line here than this one is or why is it not blending in? And then you really start looking and the bed knives are thicker on the one because they switched a bed knife because it got damaged, it didn't get ground down. So everything is different. And mating and keeping everything as close to, as closely, you know, symmetrical and same size as everything else that's on the same unit is really important. That, that was one, that's probably one of the biggest tips that you can give somebody, you know.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, I would agree with that. And when I interviewed or when I talked to Jerry Gellman, that was one of the reasons Toro come up with the DPA cutting unit. And moving the pivot point higher for the bed bar is so that behind center distance would stay similar throughout the life of the reel because of that happening. If Mom and Pop course had a triplex and they damaged a reel, you know, and all their other two reels were wore out and they just replaced that one reel, how the cut would look totally different. With, you know, one new rail and the two old ones. Um, yeah, it's just, yeah, definitely a best practice for sure.

Ron McCall:

another tip or trick for me is, you know, I'm a big one on communication and documentation. You know, document. I do my best to remember things, but I'd rather use my brain energy on other things. So if you can document it and stay organized, then

Trent Manning:

Does any of that come, does any of that come from military?

Ron McCall:

Oh, definitely. Yep.

Trent Manning:

yeah.

Ron McCall:

Yeah, definitely from the military. It's

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah,

Ron McCall:

you know. It's a, the reference back without having to guess It saved me. It's, you know, it saves me a couple of times, especially on, um, you know, I, in my, I've been that at this full time now for 15 years, almost 40 years total, and I've never had a piece of equipment catch on fire. I've lost two pieces of equipment. That's one this year and one last year.

Trent Manning:

nice,

Ron McCall:

you know, and last year was a 4, 700 Toro. This year was a. We had a fire on a vent track. First thing they asked me is when was the last service and what have you done to it? I could go right to the book and I could pull the paperwork and I'd say, well, this is what I did. This is what we've done. This is the maintenance we've done. And we had done very little too. It only had 1300 hours on it. So we're still don't know what happened to it. But it's like, if I don't have those records, when they asked me for it, it can create issues.

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah, for sure. And so, I've told this story on the podcast several times but Charlie Carr, twenty two years, I think, retired, army, first sergeant, and I was lucky enough that he worked for me for three years and one of the biggest things I learned from him is feed the bear and you talk about communication. Um, you know, Every day at the end of the day, he gave me a sit rep. I never asked for a sit rep the first time. Every day he gave me one, you know,

Ron McCall:

Right,

Trent Manning:

feed me the information, feed the information, feed the bear, bear won't eat you. Um, but it was a really good lesson for me to learn too. You know, the more information you give somebody, you know, they might get tired of hearing it at some point, but you're not get in trouble for giving them too much information.

Ron McCall:

Yeah and the information, you know, our job as equipment managers is to keep the equipment running and to make sure that the aftercut appearance is right. It's as an equipment, you know, as the manager for all the equipment, when it goes out and it mows, I go out and I check it every day. I do my best to get on the course and look at my greens every day. And if there's a problem, it's my responsibility to pull that off. If the superintendent notices it, and they have to pull, they have to call me and say, hey, we got a problem on this mower. I'm not doing my job. That's how I look at it. So, you know, and if I have to pull a piece of equipment, I'll pull the greens mower off, and then I let the superintendent know. Hey, I pulled greens mower off, they're on their way back, there's going to be a little delay, whatever the case is. And then the superintendent for that course will usually meet me out there and say yep, good call, you know, we want to prevent, you know, damage or whatever the case is. You know, it might be something small, but, you know, we're a premium resort and when you have someone comes up there and they're paying what they are in order to play our courses, they want the best conditions. And that's my responsibility. You know, I do know how to grow grass because I was a superintendent. I know, you know, so it makes a big difference that, you know, that I take that level of concern and care and understanding. And I believe a lot of guys that are in the position that I'm in and you're in, you know, do. So,

Trent Manning:

Yeah. No, I would agree with that. Yeah. And I mean, it's a little different set up at some different places, but yeah, for sure. If you're out there and you see something wrong, you know, it's one of those see something, say something,

Ron McCall:

right.

Trent Manning:

you know,

Ron McCall:

Yeah, and you know, we don't have to explain everything to the superintendent, but keep them apprised of what's going on. You know, it's like, Hey, I did this, or this is going on, or this is going on, or you know, when they come to you and say, Hey, we need the top dress next week. And I, you know, I didn't communicate that the top dress was down. That's a problem. So, you know, that's where it all, you know, yep. Yep.

Trent Manning:

on a sprayer, it doesn't matter what I'm doing to that sprayer. If I'm checking the air pressure in the tires, I tell superintendent about it. Hey, I'm pulling sprayer in. I'm going to check it out. You know, we're doing all chat, you know, just whatever it is. Um, you know, I see them not using it. You know, I'll clarify. No, they're not using it. Just give them a rundown. Yeah. We're just going to go through it. Check it out. You know, make sure everything's okay. Because soon as you know, you know, tear it apart and then they're like, Oh we need that. We got to go spray this right now.

Ron McCall:

Yep. Oh, yeah, cuz they're out there driving around on the course you're in there in the shop next thing No, they come in and like oh we found some dollar spot. We got to hit it.

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Ron McCall:

you know, they're like, oh crap I didn't tell them and I got the sprayer in there and I had to pull the pump off because it was leaking or whatever The case is, you know, if you don't it's all about and that's you know, that's why communication is so very important

Trent Manning:

Yeah. It is, I mean, it's one of those things is so important and we all talk about how important it is, but we all, not all, maybe not all of us. I'm guilty. We forget about it. You know, a lot of times, you know, you get, get in your mind about what all you got to get accomplished for the day. You put your head down, you start working, you're getting things done and you forget to communicate. I mean, you know, it happens to all of us. I do believe.

Ron McCall:

I use these little ring binders these I don't know these disc binders This is just what little peep that I

Trent Manning:

Okay. Yep. Yep.

Ron McCall:

And every time something is said for as best as I possibly can do, I write it down. I write the date on top of it, and then I write it down. And I can always refer back to it. I used to use steno pads, and I'd put a starting date on the front cover of it. And then every day when I came in, I'd draw a line, and I'd put a date. And that was from that date on. And if I made a phone call and I got information, I wrote part numbers down, I wrote prices down, or whatever the case is, then the next day when I come in, I draw my new line, I put a new date on there. When that gets filled up, I put it in my filing cabinet. I can always refer back to it. But, you know, it's like, you know, C Y A.

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. Yep.

Ron McCall:

I'm

Trent Manning:

I remember like when I first got in, got to doing this the mechanic that I was working underneath, um, same thing. We had our notepad and we jotted down what we done every single day. And I mean, not in like super detail, but you know, wrote it down, everything we worked on that day. And just for that CYA. So if the boss ever said, what'd you do yesterday? You can show right here. That's what I've done. I

Ron McCall:

every piece of equipment and everything that we do on the equipment, there, I have a sheet for it. And that, and every piece of equipment has a, you know, if I have it like right now, I have a zero turn 7200 in the shop. There's a clipboard sitting on the seat with a sheet on it for what we're doing to that piece of equipment and that goes into a binder on everything that we work on every single day. So that stack of papers is not, you know, every, at the end of the day gets put into the binder that says, you know, this is what we, you know, so I do have a chronological order of everything that we've done on every piece of equipment. yeah.

Trent Manning:

And I'm techie too, and I like technology. But some days I kind of want to go back to the three ring binder on my equipment because I could flip it open to, you know, my fairway mower and I seen everything I've done to that fairway mower. I don't have to look on the computer, you know, I don't have to search for it. I don't have to run a report, you know, all those things like, okay here it all is. And I mean, even, you know, we buy all our equipment, so we're keeping it, you know, for some time. And a fairway mower that is six years old. Most everything that I've done to it in six years fits on a single page. You know, so I mean, it's not like it's, you know, 20 pages worth of stuff there. And

Ron McCall:

yeah, I mean I Prior, you know, I've gone to places that had no records Almost every place that I've actually gone to an equipment manager didn't have records.

Trent Manning:

Yeah,

Ron McCall:

So I've created everything So I actually I do get I do use a sheet of paper Every time that we work on something What that's done for me is that I am able to track parts and I, you know, So I log all the parts that we put on, I log how much oil we put into it, you know, I actually track what we paid for it. And then I, you know, I have a Google spreadsheet that I track every single part of and supply that I bought from my shop and it saved me. It, one of the things it's done though is it saved me. I bought, I remember I bought a switch one week, it was 32 and I ordered it the next week and it was 77. I'm like, why? Oh, it was a typo. You know,

Trent Manning:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ron McCall:

you know,

Trent Manning:

Yeah. That

Ron McCall:

You need two or three of those switches and all of a sudden you're spending 90 extra because there was a little error when they entered in the new part or whatever the case is. I don't know.

Trent Manning:

Right. Right. Right. Right. That's a good point too. While you bring it up, it's probably worth mentioning. You know, if you do see something like that with parts you're ordering, you know, even if you're just not sure. Pick the phone up, make a phone call because we all make mistakes every day and it's easy to key in the wrong price.

Ron McCall:

Right.

Trent Manning:

You know, easy for that to happen.

Ron McCall:

I remember buying a, I bought a new gear for a Sawskill roller. My chains wore out my gear, so I bought a new gear for it. And it was, I don't know, 8. It was supposed to be 80.

Trent Manning:

Oh,

Ron McCall:

I ordered three of them, because I needed three of them. And, you know, I got them in. And then when I got the bill, they charged me 80. I'm like, You know, so I was able to go back in my paperwork and I said, look, I, you know, I get what you're saying, but this is my invoice and this is what I'm going to pay because that your mistake is not my problem. And they honored it, you know, and if I really wanted to be a jerk about it, I could have ordered every single one of them, sold them on eBay.

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah.

Ron McCall:

it's like, yeah, like I'm just going to buy all 10 you had an inventory and I'll sell them for 800 bucks. No, you know, so, but I didn't even really, I didn't even question. I'm like, well, okay, it's not as bad as I thought. But when the invoice came in, I was like, Hey, you know, wait a minute. So, you know, and I was a retail guy for a long time. So, you know, this is what I was supposed to pay. This is what I'm going to pay. Now, if you need to change it going forward, okay. But for right now, this is where we need to be.

Trent Manning:

I hear you.

Ron McCall:

it's all in the neck. We see why.

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yep. That's right. Was there anything else you want to cover under the communication and

Ron McCall:

Um, no, I mean, you know, we covered it. It's like communicate openly with your supers and communicate with your staff, let them know that you're there to fix stuff, you know, make them feel, you know, welcome in the shop. That's the biggest thing is like, you know, my where I'm at now, when I got there, there was an old beat up desk in the office at one end and a whole room of parts and I've made it into this inviting, warm space that the guys, I mean, the coffee machine is in my office. In and, you know, everybody comes in the morning, gets their coffee in there, and I've got, you know, flavored creamer in the refrigerator. And, you know, it's like, I mean, I even have a grinder. We grind our beans to make coffee every morning for every single pot. You know, so they come in and they can sit down and they can talk. And. You know, what do you got? You guys having any problems? Did you have any problems with your equipment yesterday? Cause sometimes we're not there and these guys are working longer than we are, you know, and that's, you know, it's just the nature of the beast when you have 81 holes of golf, you know, I can't, you know, we're not there 24 hours a day, so that opens the door for them to communicate with you freely. And, you know, we do a little things like, you know, every other week I cook out for the staff. I've got a smoker, I have a grill and I have a flat top griddle in my shop. And. Every other week I cook for all 70 staff members, we, for lunch.

Trent Manning:

wow. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That's super cool. Yeah.

Ron McCall:

we switch it up. You know, one week we'll have dogs and brats and sometimes we'll do Philly Steak Subs. Sometimes we do tacos, sometimes we do, it doesn't matter what it is, but. They know that at 11 o'clock every other Thursday, they're going to get a meal and we cover that out of the shop, you know. So,

Trent Manning:

Oh, nice. Yeah.

Ron McCall:

keep that camaraderie and, you know, and that opens up the door, because then everybody can sit around and talk about what's happening or not happening, or problem with the, you know, every piece of equipment. That's one of the things that, you know, You know and the industry is that every piece of equipment has a quirk, doesn't matter what it Well, if you're getting on number three, you got to turn the key three times and push the, you know, the forward and reverse pedal down and then pull it back a little bit and then it'll start up and you won't have any problem. You know, it gives everybody a chance to communicate, you know, and say, hey, you know, this is what's going on, or this one's moving slower, and then, you know, it, because what happens is the same operator gets on it, they notice it, but they get used to it. So then they just

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ron McCall:

Doesn't mean that it's right, but they accept that's the way it's going to be. Well, if you let us know, then we'll fix it so that, the way it's supposed to be. So,

Trent Manning:

right. Yeah. I had a prog gator that you had to hold down the PTO switch or the PTO lever, you know, to start it. You know, it's

Ron McCall:

We got one that if you have the brake pulled all the way up, it'll start. But if you put it all the way down, it will shut off so that you have to put

Trent Manning:

yeah.

Ron McCall:

Switch adjustment is. It's like, so we haven't figured that one out. It was a new something that came. It started at the end of the season. So, like, oh, this one you have to, you can't put the brake all the way down. If you do, it's one click too much, and there's only one click, literally, one click too much and it shuts the machine off.

Trent Manning:

Huh. That's crazy.

Ron McCall:

you know, just little stuff like that. But that gives all the guys, while they're sitting around and they're talking and having a soda or whatever, it gives them a chance to communicate with each other and us about some of the issues, or even course issues. You know,

Trent Manning:

Yep. Yep. Stuff they're seeing out on the course for sure. You ready to do some rapid fire?

Ron McCall:

Sure,

Trent Manning:

All

Ron McCall:

will be the test.

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is the test. We'll see if you pass or fail right here. What's your favorite movie?

Ron McCall:

Oh, my favorite movie. That was a tough one, you know, because I've, um,

Trent Manning:

you're a movie buff and you've watched all these movies, I was really, I'm expecting something here.

Ron McCall:

Well, so we're, I'm, I said I'm a vet. The job that I did in the Air Force is the same job that Jack Reacher did. So, um, in the movie. So I put down Jack Reacher,

Trent Manning:

Okay. All

Ron McCall:

So I was a federal agent and I was an investigator in the Air Force. That's what I did. So Jack Reacher hits, you know, hits a big nerve with me,

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I could see that. That's awesome. What would be your last meal?

Ron McCall:

Tie peanut curry. It's

Trent Manning:

Yeah, I don't. Yeah,

Ron McCall:

food. Spicy.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, I like spicy. Just not really a Thai guy and when you say curry, I want to go the other way. Yeah, I don't know what it is. Just one of those things, but more power to you.

Ron McCall:

Years in Europe, you learn to eat Indian food, I guess.

Trent Manning:

Well, yeah, I guess, yeah, that probably makes a lot of sense.

Ron McCall:

Yep.

Trent Manning:

What are you most proud of besides your family?

Ron McCall:

My, I'm a proud vet, so my military career and then my rapid advancement in the industry. You know, I moved up pretty fast and, you know, from being full time for 15 years, it's you know, to go from a greenskeeper to a superintendent to, and the public secretary to a, You know, second super in the private sector doing equipment guy to equipment manager to 81 holes is moved up pretty fast.

Trent Manning:

No, that is awesome. Yeah, very good. Congratulations on that. And yeah, thank you for your service. How long did you serve?

Ron McCall:

10 years total.

Trent Manning:

Okay, awesome.

Ron McCall:

Yep.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, that's it's a different breed.

Ron McCall:

Yeah, that's why, you know, it's, it. I put a little note, you know, to myself'cause one of, you know, part of that is we were talking about finding people in the industry and when I got out of the military, I didn't look at the ag, the agronomy side of it, and. Just before COVID, the, you know, the, at the time the GCSA president was from Michigan. And I talked to him about a company that I had started called hire a vet for golf. And I created an online resume service for veterans. So the superintendents could go to that and find, cause I just in communication, I wasn't a superintendent that I ever talked to that said he's everyone that I posed the question to, they said, you bring me a vet, I'll hire him on the spot,

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah.

Ron McCall:

You know, everything about, you know, the majority of them anyway, the veterans, they have a work ethic and, you know, the commitment and everything else, so. So I created this company and of course then COVID hit and it got delayed so I resurrected it this spring and I put it up and it, you know, so it's a, so that's a passion that I, you know, I want to, part of it is giving back to the industry too because all it is an online resume service. But out of that initial fee, I want to give part of the initial fee to the GCSA. for scholarships and education, you know,

Trent Manning:

Oh, okay.

Ron McCall:

So that's the premise of it. Get the word out there and support the industry because if we don't, we're not going to have enough people to do the jobs. That's, you know,

Trent Manning:

yeah. Well, tell all the listeners. What's the website?

Ron McCall:

It's a higher, it's higher event for golf. org and it's actually H I R E A. Vet and the number four.org.

Trent Manning:

Okay. Awesome. No, that's so cool. You're doing that. Yeah. Yeah. So how do veterans get in, get their name on that list?

Ron McCall:

well, it's a, so we have a, you know, there's a set fee. Your initial year, which allows two changes is$125. That gets you an online digital resume. And then out of that 125 of that, we're giving the 25 initially is going right back into the GCSA and the Michigan GCSA for scholarship and training. There's a lot of small courses can't afford to send someone to, or even membership dues, to a state or local chapter.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, right, right, right.

Ron McCall:

You know, so, how can we get more guys involved? Let's pay for it, and if it means, you know, a little money out of the pocket, you know, I can't pay for everybody's membership, so,

Trent Manning:

Right, right. No, that's cool Yeah. Yeah, very cool. No, that's awesome. You're doing that. Yep Very cool. Well tell the listeners how they can get a hold of You got an email or a twitter or any of those things?

Ron McCall:

I have, well, let's see, I can give my personal email is easy, cause it's my name, ron at mccalls dot u s.

Trent Manning:

Okay, that's cool. Yeah

Ron McCall:

I've owned that domain for 35 years now almost, and When the us's came out, my hosting company called me and said you want McCall's? I said certainly, so,

Trent Manning:

Okay, awesome,

Ron McCall:

but

Trent Manning:

very cool

Ron McCall:

so that's the easiest way to get a hold of me. Or even call me, I mean, I'm, my Facebook is, you know, it's Ron McCall. I got a picture that I actually took of the Thunderbirds right on my Facebook page. And, you know, my number's on there, my email's, I'm not hiding from anybody.

Trent Manning:

Gotcha. Gotcha. Very cool. Well, thank you so much, Ron, for being on. I thoroughly enjoyed this. And we'll

Ron McCall:

been a pleasure and it's been an honor. I truly truly enjoyed it. I look forward to seeing you out in San Diego. I am going to be out there. So

Trent Manning:

Very good. Yep. We'll definitely connect out there. thank you so much for listening to the Reel turf techs podcast. I hope you learned something today. Don't forget to subscribe. If you have any topics you'd like to discuss, or you'd like to be a guest, find us on Twitter at Reel turf techs.