Reel Turf Techs Podcast

Episode 131: Ben Herberger

• Trent Manning • Episode 131

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In this episode of the Reel Turf Techs Podcast, we chat with Ben Herberger, Equipment Manager at Shooting Star Golf Club in Teton Village, WY. Ben, the lone technician overseeing a fleet of Toro equipment, shares his journey and valuable insights from his career.

Hailing from a family deeply connected to golf course maintenance—his great-grandfather was a superintendent—Ben grew up immersed in the industry. He first learned to turn wrenches at 18 while fixing his motorcycle, a skill that eventually led him to a role as a Toro distributor tech before moving to Central Oregon and later Jackson Hole.

Ben and Trent explore how the superintendent’s approach and leadership style can profoundly shape an equipment manager’s day-to-day experience. They discuss the relational aspects of the job, the importance of fostering a positive work environment, and the introspection needed to determine the “price” of happiness at work—how to cultivate it and when to consider moving on. Ben also reflects on the satisfaction of mentoring the next generation of technicians and the joy it brings.

Away from the shop, Ben embraces life as a dad to a two-year-old, enjoys fly fishing, running, and working on his hot rod Ford. Join us for an engaging and thoughtful conversation about finding balance and purpose in the turf industry!



Trent Manning:

It's getting real. That's right. It's getting real. So tell me how to say your last name.

Ben Herberger:

Ha! My last name is pronounced Herberger.

Trent Manning:

Herberger. Okay. Maybe, yeah, maybe I can remember that. Herberger. That's, yeah, that's pretty simple. That's pretty easy.

Ben Herberger:

It's pretty close to hamburger. I got joked joked about that a lot in high school. So,

Trent Manning:

yeah. Did they call you the Hamburglar or anything like that? Or

Ben Herberger:

Every variation you could possibly imagine. Every variation.

Trent Manning:

I'm sure. Herberger. All right. Good stuff. this episode are real turf techs on golf course industries Superintendent radio network is presented by Foley county a strong supporter of equipment technicians and golf course maintenance departments everywhere Foley county offers a proven solution for above and below the turf for turf professionals To learn more about Foley company's line of real grinders bed knife grinders and the air to G2 family of products or to find a distributor visit www dot Foley C o.com Foley Ready for play welcome to the real turf techs podcast episode 1 31. Today, we're talking to Ben Herberger equipment manager at shooting star golf club in Teton village, Wyoming. Ben is the loan tech and his fleet are primarily Toro equipment. Let's talk to Ben. Welcome Ben to the real turf text podcast. Thanks for coming on. How you doing today?

Ben Herberger:

Hey, you know, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Trent. It's a pleasure to get to talk to you.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, no, I'm really excited and what I'm really excited about is you're in one of the most Beautiful places I've ever been to And not that I've been to a lot of places. I stayed in the South for a long time, but I have started traveling recently and I was lucky enough. We took my sister and I, she's four years younger than me, took my dad for his 80th birthday last September. And we flew into Jackson hole and then spent whatever, well, we spent a day at the Tetons and then the next three or four days at Yellowstone. And then flew out of Jackson Hall and man, it was, yeah, something else.

Ben Herberger:

There you go. I gotta ask. Which park was your favorite one? Did you enjoy Yellowstone more or Grand Teton?

Trent Manning:

Well, so my sister asked me this question and I said, it's apples and oranges to me. You know, I mean, I really like, I really enjoyed both of them and I couldn't pick one over the other. I mean, they're different in their own right. I mean, Yellowstone, what I saw of it anyway, is a whole lot bigger than what I saw of the Tetons. But the Tetons, we seen a moose and we didn't see it. We didn't see any moose in Yellowstone.

Ben Herberger:

There

Trent Manning:

We did see plenty of Buffalo though.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah. they're they're

Trent Manning:

of Buffalo. Yeah. That was crazy. Tell us how you got into the turf industry.

Ben Herberger:

Well, I I don't know, I got kind of a boring story, I guess. My family actually owns a golf course, so I was kind of born into it. far as I can tell, I'm about the fourth generation that's worked in the industry. My great grandpa was a superintendent down in Salem, Oregon, where I'm from.

Trent Manning:

Okay.

Ben Herberger:

And then my grandpa was a superintendent and bought a nine hole country club at the time back in 1950. That's that's been the family course that's in Oregon city. And that's actually where I grew up. So

Trent Manning:

Oh, that's awesome though. So cool. I mean, a lot of history there.

Ben Herberger:

yeah, man, shoot.

Trent Manning:

stuff.

Ben Herberger:

think I was five years old going out and help my, well, helping my dad change cups, carrying his bucket for him and running after the flag. But

Trent Manning:

No, that's cool stuff. That's awesome. Yeah. So what got you into turning wrenches and on that side?

Ben Herberger:

well that's yeah, that's a little bit more of an interesting part of the story. My dad had a mechanic that worked for him for a number of years that moved on. While he was there working for my dad, I. I needed a method of transportation, so he helped me pick out what every good 18 year old boy needs, and that's a motorcycle.

Trent Manning:

Yes.

Ben Herberger:

got that, he helped me fix it up, rebuild the engine, rebuild the transmission, go through the whole thing, and basically that was kind of my introduction to actually turning wrenches. Before that, my dad always kind of saw something in me, would bring home broken pieces of equipment from the golf course. You know, motor here, a board there, and let me just tear it apart with some little tools I had at home. So it's kind of always been an inclination of mine.

Trent Manning:

That's cool. Super cool.

Ben Herberger:

yeah, a couple years after my dad's mechanic moved on, he gave me a call one day out of the blue. I think I was working some crummy construction job at the time, and in all fairness, I wasn't any good at it. And he rang me up and asked if I wanted to be his assistant mechanic working with him at a country club in North Portland. And at the time, the gentleman was 72 years old, and so his plan was to show me their ups for a couple of years and then transition on to a beautiful retirement. Well, I worked there for a couple of years and then he never seemed like he was getting super uncomfortable in his chair. So I found a job with a local tour distributor

Trent Manning:

Oh, okay.

Ben Herberger:

applied there and was a mobile tech for a couple of years. So that was kind of my overall introduction into wrenching. After that, I worked for shoot, worked there for a couple of years, got married, moved close to the wife's family into central Oregon, worked for a place called Black Butte ranch. And then. And then last place before this one was Sun River Resort, Crosswater Golf Course, and all of that stuff.

Trent Manning:

Okay. Yeah. So how did you get to Jackson Hole or why are you there?

Ben Herberger:

Why am I in

Trent Manning:

because it's yeah, because it's so beautiful.

Ben Herberger:

No it's beautiful. Um, yeah, honestly, it was, it's kind of, more pragmatic for me than that. What it kind of came down to was When we moved to Central Oregon initially, it was the cheap part of the state to live in, which was great for a young, broke, married couple. Well, it became the most expensive part of the state, and then kept going up and going up, and I basically got to the point where we couldn't afford rent, and we had to move one way or another. Um, this job in Jackson came up, and my wife and I looked at it, and we're like, Okay, we know what prices are like in Jackson. Well, there's no way we can make this work. Oh. But my wife encouraged me to apply and talk with the superintendent and get to see what was going on, see how they make it work here and, you know, you know, talking to him and honestly, him and I have a great relationship and that, you know, we had a two hour conversation that first time. So we just hit it off and was willing to make the leap. And we're, you know, we're doing life here now and gorgeous Jackson, Wyoming.

Trent Manning:

That's awesome though. So cool. And I think that's so important to getting along with the superintendent or your director, you know, whatever their title might be is that relationship. If that relationship is good, it can be the best work environment in the world. And if that relationship is bad, it can be the worst work environment in the world.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah,

Trent Manning:

That is, and I think, you know, like you're saying, when you interviewed and you have a two hour conversation, you can have a pretty good idea, like, okay, I think I can get along with this guy or gal or whatever the case may be. But I want to hear a little bit about your time on the road with the Toro distributor, because that, that brings back memories for me.

Ben Herberger:

Oh, dude, it was crazy. It was yeah, me and another tech basically covered the whole state of Oregon, um, and all the shop work and part of, and the southwest side of Washington. So we were everywhere. It was fix this, fix that, you know, a lot of the warranty calls. I'm sure you saw it. It's all hydraulic or wiring, essentially, unless something truly breaks in warranty. Um, yeah, so it was, man, we were everywhere. I think I saw the majority of the state of Oregon in the couple years I worked there. And, man, I learned so much because you're constantly chasing after a different repair on a different piece of equipment that maybe you haven't seen, maybe it's brand new to the customer, it's a fresh release. I mean, there was so much stuff. Um, That was kind of how I got introduced to the guys over in Central Oregon and was able to make that connection and that move,

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Ben Herberger:

wife and I got married. So, yeah, no,

Trent Manning:

Yeah, it's a great network opportunity and I know I spent a lot of time on the phone with the tack team at Toro and getting to know those guys up there. And I mean, the amount of knowledge that I gained talking to them and troubleshooting, you know, cause that's what they've done every day, all day long. And I mean, they were experts on these pieces of equipment. And yeah, I don't know if I ended up working on more rough mowers, but I talked to Eric Bowmeister and Ryan, I can't remember Ryan's last name. Um, anyway, I talked to those two because they were over the rough series of mowers and I talked to them to a lot and learned a ton of stuff. And just like you're saying, I mean, you can learn so much working for a distributor like that in a short amount of time. Because I mean, it's a new problem every single day where at the golf course, I mean, like now, and we don't, we buy all our equipment, we don't lease anything. So, I mean, our stuff gets old, but the random weird problems, you know, I mean, maybe you get one a month where, you know, at the distributor, it's every single day, maybe two or three during the day. If you can knock them out quick.

Ben Herberger:

I don't know about you, but that was some of my favorite stuff to chase down. It was that kind of random weird stuff. I like, shoot, I think we had a outcross right when that tractor unit, not a tractor if you talk to an engineer, but that thing came out.

Trent Manning:

Yep. Yep.

Ben Herberger:

It, they'd thrown an AC kit on it from the factory which is great, but it wouldn't work. And it was at the yard. I'm like, gosh, we gotta figure this thing out. It won't even kick on. So I had to climb up on the roof of that thing and pull off the vent to get to the actual wires. crossed a couple wires, they were in the wrong spot, popped them back together and like, that was great, but I mean, that took like, you know, 45 minutes, an hour of chasing down

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ben Herberger:

Okay, how the heck does this thing even work?

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ben Herberger:

And I mean, yeah, talking to the TAC guys was great. I think, shoot, it would seem like a brand new problem to me, but they'd be like, yeah, you know, we've had 20 of these this week. What's yours? I'm like, yeah, sorry, man. Thrown on the pile, but this relay or whatever went out and you guys seen it. Okay.

Trent Manning:

Yep.

Ben Herberger:

Not a biggie.

Trent Manning:

That was another thing that I always made sure to tell the customer. This is not the first time I've seen that.

Ben Herberger:

Yep.

Trent Manning:

And if it was the first time, I really tried to resist saying that because, you know, I don't know why, but it seems like the end user, here's that a lot like, Oh, you're the only one with this problem. So if it was a known problem, I'd say, Oh, we're seeing this everywhere. You know, just be straight up and honest with them. And I think that definitely makes them feel a whole lot better. Cause when you tell them they're the only one.

Ben Herberger:

yep. You're the only crazy out there having this problem. No, I would, I'd do the same thing. I'd, shoot, like the 4000 series back in 2013 when they were putting that shoot, they were first putting the tier 4 in it. a bad run of wiring harnesses. Just bellhousing and they would break. And we were chasing those down for years. So every time I had a customer call up with some DPF issue on their 4000, I don't know why it was always the DPF, but that's what it would freak out about. Like, okay, man, don't worry about it. I know what the part number is. We'll chase it down. It's probably going to be a wiring harness, but we'll come out there and look at it just to make sure you're not the only one. This is a problem. And Toro knows it was a problem. They fixed it since. So,

Trent Manning:

Yep. Well, I remember the 4500 once it got up around 2500 hours, maybe 3000 hours. Customer would call and say, you know, it won't go forward. It won't go reverse or they would say it'll, you know, work in low, but it won't work in high or to work in high, but it won't work in low. So the first thing have you check the o rings on the spool valves and the four wheel drive valve and what's that just pull them out so underneath the floorboard and see how many o rings are missing and replace those and then get back to me and see what's happening

Ben Herberger:

​yep.

Trent Manning:

because yeah I mean it was just gonna happen.

Ben Herberger:

no, I loved taking calls like that. It was fun trying to diagnose stuff with guys. Um, there was one guy, I think I'm free to talk about his, I don't think I don't think he's still in that position. But he called me up and I think he was brand new on the job at this little nine hole mom and pop course. And he could not figure out for the life of him, why the reels would not go down on a 5410. And he called me up after two days of ripping apart the whole operator console, ripping apart every control, testing it all. And he calls me up on the phone and asks, okay. So what the heck's going on? I'm like, well, okay. So where's your foot pedal at? Where's your switch, high, low switch. It's like, what's that? Like, that's that aluminum piece of metal kind of off to the right of the, you know, forward reverse control. And I don't know how you can bleep this out. He goes, motherfucker. And he goes and he flips it and he drops it and it works like a charm. Yeah, that was the last time I heard from that guy,

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yeah.

Ben Herberger:

I assume he got the problem straightened out.

Trent Manning:

I know, but I don't know. We've, I think anyway, I know I've done it plenty of times. I think we've all done it. You know, you just get in your head and you say, you know, you forget the, you know, everybody tells you keep it simple, but sometimes you don't and you just jump in the rabbit hole and start digging as deep as you can.

Ben Herberger:

Yep.

Trent Manning:

I mean, I've done the same thing. Tear wire harnesses apart and rip all the loom off. And then it'll be some stupid, something like, God, why did I not look at that? So, oh yeah,

Ben Herberger:

yeah, in the heat of the moment when you got somebody pressing for that piece of equipment and you need it back, man, you go into full mad scientist mode and nothing's nothing's good after that.

Trent Manning:

no. Yeah, for sure. Well, what is your least favorite part of the job? do

Ben Herberger:

Alright, it? is not sand. There's actually been occasions where I have told people where they should probably throw some sand on there because that, that green looks like it needs it. We're getting grainy. We're getting thatchy. Let's toss some sand. My least favorite part of the job, I hate greasing. I absolutely hate running the grease gun, getting it all over. That's my least favorite part of the job. I will, I have I've had some good guys, especially here, I've got some really good guys that definitely let them grease it. In the past, I've had, ah, shoot, we don't, as an industry, we don't attract rocket scientists, you know, so I barely trust them to put the right fuel in it, let alone put grease in a bearing.

Trent Manning:

Right, right, right. Yeah.

Ben Herberger:

So right now I'm handling it all myself.

Trent Manning:

don't, this just reminds me of a funny story. It's a good friend of mine. He worked on, for an electrical company on a directional boring crew and they had a Vermeer directional bore, boring rig, whatever it's called. And something had broke on it. And so he calls the mechanic up. And the mechanics like, when's the last time you greased it? He's all, we grease it every day, you know, and he's totally lied. So,

Ben Herberger:

Huh. Um,

Trent Manning:

and I don't know why I was out there that day. Just goofing off or whatever. But anyway, he gets the grease gun and he gets a big glob of grease on his finger and he smears it on the grease fitting. And I'm like, dude, a mechanic is not going to buy that at all. Because inside where the grease is supposed to be, he's going to know it's not been greased. You know, you can't get one over all day by doing that. But yeah, that was good stuff.

Ben Herberger:

Alright. That reminds me of a couple times we had a couple smoked HDX engines working at the distributor and we're like, okay, when was the last time you guys changed the oil? Like oh, you know, we change it all the time. It's great oil I'm like, okay, so you pull the drain plug and it comes out crystal clear But you look at the cylinders you pop the head off the whole score it up. There's not been any oil in this thing it's all nasty inside like so you guys blew up the engine and then put Just be honest. We'll figure it out. It's not gonna be not a big deal one way or another just you know Give me the details we can fix it quicker

Trent Manning:

That's right. Well tell us what your favorite tool is.

Ben Herberger:

Oh man, I think I've waffled on this one. I read that question. I'm like, man, that's my favorite tool.

Trent Manning:

It's hard to pick one.

Ben Herberger:

I know, especially as mechanics, we all tend to be a little bit of a tool hound. I think probably my favorite one is I carried in my pocket since I've worked at the distributor is a little baby four inch set of NipX.

Trent Manning:

Oh, okay. Yep. Yeah. That nip X. Those are really quality tools.

Ben Herberger:

Yep. Yep. It's come in handy for so many things Usually I think I got it because or started carrying them So I was checking hydraulic fluid on something and the dang cap was stuck on there so tight I couldn't get it loose by hand. So I pull these out and You know, popped right off. It was A OK.

Trent Manning:

Sometimes that's all you need. Just a little bit more leverage.

Ben Herberger:

Exactly.

Trent Manning:

Well, what do you do to relax and find your balance up there in the beautiful country?

Ben Herberger:

Ah, it is beautiful country. Um, Right now I've actually, I've got a two year old at home. So I don't get to do a ton of hobbying anymore. Used to be big into fly fishing. I've got an old hot rod Ford I like to fix up and drive around. Used to be into motorcycles prior. I had a bad accident, so that, that ship sailed. Hence the hot rods. Thanks.

Trent Manning:

Okay.

Ben Herberger:

These days, basically what I get to do for fun is I go running in the morning. That's what I do around here. Go run before work and the scenery is gorgeous. Watching the sunrise come up over

Trent Manning:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. Something else. Something else.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah.

Trent Manning:

I love it. What has been your biggest challenge to date?

Ben Herberger:

Shoot. That's a really good question.

Trent Manning:

Maybe you hadn't had one and that's okay too.

Ben Herberger:

no, I think

Trent Manning:

Tell us your secret.

Ben Herberger:

yeah, my deep dark secret. No, I think the biggest challenge I've had Overall, it kind of goes back to what we were talking about before, not always getting along with the superintendent or the director of agronomy. And yeah, not that I think anybody that works there will ever listen to this, but they might. It was at a job previous, and we'll leave it at that. But it was it's rough, man. It's rough dealing with a guy that you walk past his office and then you just hope he doesn't look up at you. You just want to go and do your thing in the shop, keep turning out the best product you possibly can, and just pray that this guy doesn't need to come talk to you for some reason.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, that's a tough situation.

Ben Herberger:

can't say I always dealt with that well, but Yeah, that one's probably the biggest challenge.

Trent Manning:

I don't. So I was in Florida a couple weeks ago or whatever. It's been a month ago now, I guess and I got to hang out with Haas for a little while and he was telling me about the superintendent. I don't remember the guy's name and not that it matters, but Um, that he worked for. And he said, this was the angriest person he had ever met. Like he was just always in a terrible mood, but he had us dying laughing because he's, he said, he would tell this guy, like he'd be leaving the shop or leaving work or whatever. And he'd be like, all right, man, have a good day. And the guy would say, don't tell me what to do. And I don't know. I just thought that was so funny. I said, how angry this guy was. You tell him to have a good day and he yells at you, don't tell me what to do. yeah, he had us rolling on that. It was good stuff.

Ben Herberger:

That's great, man. Yeah,

Trent Manning:

what's one of the, what's one of the strangest things you've seen around the golf

Ben Herberger:

shoot, man. I waffled on this one, too, because I swear I've seen just about everything, especially working for a dealer. Gosh, the stuff that you come across is just mind boggling. Sometimes I kind of had to boil it down to two things. I think. Probably the single strangest was working out at my folks place. We were trimming up trees right around one of the greens, and I was looking up, I was running the pole saw, and I saw this metal thing glinting up by the tree. It was on hole number five. Well, my little brother climbs up there and he pulls down a putter. Somebody had gotten so, so mad at their shot on number five green, they chucked their putter into a tree. And these are old you know, Port Orford cedar trees, so the branches are super thick. So that thing did not give it up. It was, I don't even know what happened to that thing. We gave it to my dad and I think he said he knew whose it was and that was kind of the end of that.

Trent Manning:

That's good stuff.

Ben Herberger:

There was a, there was another time we had a. A close call, probably the closest call I've had to somebody like getting seriously hurt on the golf course at Blackbeard Ranch behind our driving range. It's pretty hilly there. It's built right in the mountains and it starts to go up a grade. This guy was running a, I think it was a 3000 series John Deere tractor with a little air fire in the back to just go and, you know, spot air fire some rough spots and compacted spots. And he was driving back down the hill. So, when he noticed what he thought was water pouring off of the steering wheel, angle adjust. And all of a sudden, he loses steering, he loses everything, because that steering pump is just gushing fluid out onto his foot, and he keeps driving. Eventually the steering goes completely out, and he's heading towards this cliff, and the thing won't stop, it won't do anything. So he eventually kills it, just as the front tire catches on a rock, right on the edge of the soft soft gravel, just before he's about to go off the edge. And that was probably the scariest thing we saw because it would have been a, you know, 20 yard drop into rocks and trees. And yeah, that was scary. So, the next day I got to go sit down with the crew and be like, Hey guys, if you see water pouring off of anything on one of these machines, Just shut it off and call me. Don't try and run it back to the shop. There's no water on any of this stuff that looks crystal clear. Um, so that's probably the scariest close call we've had. Um, that would have been, that would have been bad.

Trent Manning:

Do you have a mentor in the industry?

Ben Herberger:

You know, I thought about this a little bit. My mentor probably would have to be the, my dad's old mechanic who hired me on. He was a old pipe fitter and a rough and tumble sort of guy, ex Navy, um, ex biker, just lived a hard life and he was the easiest talking Sort of guy you could ever meet just laughed at everything always had a joke I always would put people in a good mood And I tried to take that with me in the shop because I've known a lot of mechanics who dude you just don't want to Talk to that guy. He's got a problem every single day and he's more than happy to lean to you whether it's your fault or not Um, so yeah he taught me how to laugh and how to try and keep the guys laughing and I tried to keep as much of that as possible, um, going through my career.

Trent Manning:

That's a really good trait to hang on there and that's a super good mentor and when you were describing this person, I was not, that's not what I was picturing somebody that's happy go lucky that's been in the Navy and they're, you know, a biker and probably have tattoos, you know, I mean, all the things that go along with that. Yeah, you can't always judge a book by its cover and that's a fact. I knew this guy that was covered head to toe in tattoos, and he even had five stars around his neck. Super nice guy, most down to earth. I mean, just normal, like you run into him and he'd talk about his garden and how his garden was doing. And I mean, you know, that's not what you expect to come out of this. And he was a big dude too, probably six, four, six, five, you know, 300 pounds. I mean, monster of a guy that looked really scary. And he'd talk about his garden, you know, just crazy.

Ben Herberger:

you never know yeah, never know whether you'll meet a gentle soul, man. yeah.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, for sure.

Ben Herberger:

yeah, that was my my mentor there, Terry.

Trent Manning:

It's good stuff. What would be your dream job or opportunity?

Ben Herberger:

Oh, shoot, man. I think I'm in it. Um, I've worked enough places and I've seen enough operations that the type of, facility it is holds less attraction to me than the people I work with and work for. I, not yeah. I think that the biggest deciding factor in coming to Jackson wasn't pay, it wasn't benefits, wasn't even the Jackson whole area and the beauty of the T Tons. It was the fact that my superintendent and I were able to have this wonderful, hour to hour long conversations. You know, I was able to see like, this is a guy I can not only work for, but I can respect and I like, and you know, I want to see where this relationship goes. Um, yeah. So right now it's here as long as the.

Trent Manning:

But yeah, lucky you. That's really good stuff.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, dude.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, that is that's awesome to have that kind of relationship with. Somebody that you have to see more than your wife and kid probably, you know, I mean, a lot of times we do, we spend more time with these people at work than we do with our family.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, we do. My, my wife likes to joke that I've got a budding bromance going on and

Trent Manning:

yeah.

Ben Herberger:

I talk

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. Huh. Yep. Yep. Yep. I've been the butt of those jokes several times.

Ben Herberger:

Yep. Yep. Shoot.

Trent Manning:

What technician would you like to work with for a day?

Ben Herberger:

I think I think the guy I'd like to work with for a day it'd be probably John Patterson over there. What is it? Atlantic? Or Atlanta Country? Or Athletic Club?

Trent Manning:

Atlanta Athletic Club. Yep.

Ben Herberger:

There we go. I got it right in the end, so.

Trent Manning:

That's all good. Yeah. No. And yes, he would be a great one to spend a day or two or a month as long as you can and just be a sponge. Absorb as much knowledge as you can.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah. So, yeah. If not him, then I'd love to spend a day with That old mentor of mine, Terry, um, haven't seen that guy in years. I think he retired last I knew, but

Trent Manning:

Mhm.

Ben Herberger:

yeah,

Trent Manning:

Yeah, that'd

Ben Herberger:

those two guys be solid.

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, do you think he's still around Oregon somewhere?

Ben Herberger:

Oh, yeah. Yep. I know he's still still back in Oregon and I'm sure he'd love to come out here. It's easy to tempt people over this direction, as maybe you can believe, so.

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah. And I mean, if you ever need me out there, you know what I mean? If you need help changing the tire or something, you just let me know. I'm your guy.

Ben Herberger:

Oh yeah, go consider yourself formally invited. Come

Trent Manning:

I'll jump on a plane right now. Um,

Ben Herberger:

there's

Trent Manning:

And I'll change the smallest tire in your shop. Cause I know how big a pain in the, that is.

Ben Herberger:

oh yeah, it's funny, the guys whenever I'm changing a tire, we have a manual tire changer here, so it's all, brute force. They think the big ones are the ones that suck. I'm like, no guys, these ones are easy. You want to change one of those little eight, eight inch rim tires for me. That one sucks. Especially if it's a trailer tire and it's an eight ply on top of it. Oh,

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Terrible. Yep. That's

Ben Herberger:

Well, I'll save one for ya. I'll

Trent Manning:

All right. Yep. Save one.

Ben Herberger:

Justify the trip.

Trent Manning:

What do you know now you wish you'd known on day one?

Ben Herberger:

I wish I had known on day one that so much of this job comes down to People and how you relate to people and on top of that kind of hand in hand is managing those expectations Especially working at the dealer working at the distributor. You want to try and please the customer as best you can But I think it's better when you what is it under sell but over deliver

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah. Sorry, dude This is gonna be 2, 500 bucks and it's gonna take us ten plus hours and if you can knock it out and four and it's Thousand bucks the guy is happy same with your superintendent, like, if you know a job is going to take a bit, yeah, plan for some unexpected occurrences to happen, guys are going to come in the shop and grab you for whatever out in the course, you know, say it's going to take a little bit longer, and then if you can deliver it quicker, absolutely, that's great, you'll be happy, you'll be happy, and nobody will have mismanaged or poor, unmet expectations.

Trent Manning:

I think that is super good advice. That's one of the best answers I think I've heard from that question, but the advice of not over promising what you can deliver on. And I don't know if it's just built into my nature, but I was always really reluctant to say how fast I could fix something unless I knew exactly, you know, if I'd done it a hundred times, I'd say this takes about this amount of time, but if I had not done the job, I'm not gonna put a time limit. I don't need that pressure on myself or our crew or, you know, anybody else. We'll get it done. You go play somewhere and we'll,

Ben Herberger:

Yep.

Trent Manning:

we'll get it taken care of.

Ben Herberger:

Well, and you know, you're always one broken bolts away from absolute heartache in any job, so it's,

Trent Manning:

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And podcast before, but I had the superintendent call me. Um, he was down the road. I didn't know him that well, but, and I didn't know his mechanic at all. But he says, how long does it take to grind a triplex? And I'm like I said, I have no idea how long, I don't know what shape the reels are in. I don't know if you're replacing the bed knives. I don't know how old the reels are, what kind of condition they're in. I mean, I've got some junk from ball fields that I've spent a day on one reel. You know, and maybe not even finished it in that day. It was so bad. So, you know, I don't know. There's too many variables there. And I was not going to potentially throw his technician under the bus, not knowing what the situation is.

Ben Herberger:

Oh yeah,

Trent Manning:

you never know.

Ben Herberger:

No, I mean there's all the quick answers, but yeah, you never know the actual condition and the shape of it is. I mean, for all you know, he's been mowing rocks for the last month, and there's not a straight edge left on that dang reel. It could take him all day. He

Trent Manning:

Oh, yeah, right.

Ben Herberger:

the dang thing, so.

Trent Manning:

Yeah, it could have a 50, 000th cone in it or something. It's going to take you an hour to ground out. Yeah. I mean, who knows? So how do you deal with that person or do you have any of those persons working on your crew?

Ben Herberger:

I currently don't really have any of those people. Um, when I, thank you, that, that's great. Yeah, that's partly because we are seasonal and people who are generally not good, you know, get cycled out. That said, you know, I tried once again, I try not to lose my cool at just about anything, unless the guy has gone and intentionally banged up one of my pieces of equipment, running into a tree on purpose, you know, dropped it in a lake. I mean, the most he's probably going to get from me is, come on, man. Can we, what were you thinking here? But outside of that, I mean, shoot, I'll let them know what they think, I think they should have done or how they should have operated the piece to avoid that problem in the future. Thanks for sharing. You know, if it keeps being a problem, I'll go and take it to the, you know, superintendent and let him sort it out. I know you've got that three strike rule with the blower nozzle. And I think that's brilliant.

Trent Manning:

I love it. Yes. I do, I got to confess something. And so I don't, it wasn't last year. I think it was the year before when the show was in Orlando and I went by the Buffalo turbine booth and the gentleman there was showing me the new band they have that holds the shoot on and it's, you know, it's extra wide and it, you don't need a wrench or anything to tighten it. And it clips on. That thing is legit. It's awesome. And you hear me knocking knock on wood. Um, hopefully it doesn't pop off, but it hadn't been popping off since we went to those.

Ben Herberger:

Oh,

Trent Manning:

just, yeah, hold it on. And they're not cheap. I mean, they're a hundred bucks or something, but not to have to put that thing on once a day in the fall, that's worth a hundred dollars

Ben Herberger:

Oh yeah. Are you able to retrofit that on the older ones or is

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I mean, I still have, um, golly, I think mine's, I don't know. It's an early 2000 model Buffalo blower on its second engine and second turbine. I think the axles are the axles maybe are original. The hubs aren't for sure but I think the axles are original. That's about it. Original paint.

Ben Herberger:

There you go.

Trent Manning:

everything else has been replaced. So yeah you call them up and they can get you the part numbers for that. And the other thing I did, they have well, a little bit of a story to Wade Borthwick at, I think it's Uplands golf club and British Columbia. He made his own bearing kit for the turbine, you know, so the way it rotates Instead of being in that plastic,

Ben Herberger:

Uhhuh.

Trent Manning:

he machined some stuff and put some barons in there. And anyway, super cool setup. And now Buffalo offers a kit, but Buffalo's kit is not cheap. I want to say it was like 600 bucks or something, but it is really nice. Um, and I don't, if you go back through my Twitter, I'm pretty sure I posted a video after I installed it. And you just push it one time and the whole thing will just spin around and around. It's pretty cool.

Ben Herberger:

Well, that's

Trent Manning:

with the belt obviously.

Ben Herberger:

does that replace those plastic?

Trent Manning:

Yes.

Ben Herberger:

okay. Yeah. That's gonna be way better. yeah.

Trent Manning:

And I think that's one reason it's expensive. It's not just the bearings, it's the metal band that the guide is, I guess, for lack of a better term. Cause you replace that and then you put the bearings on there and they have little spacers and it comes with the screws and all that stuff. Um, but pretty nice setup.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah.

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ben Herberger:

I'll have to look into that.

Trent Manning:

yeah. Um, if you remind me, I'm pretty sure I still have the part and I was actually going through my desk the other day cause I'm a hoarder and I never throw anything away. But I found that card, the business card, and they had wrote the part numbers on the business card. So I have that in my desk drawer and I even know where it is. And usually for most of us hoarders, we don't know where anything is. But this one particular item, I know where it is.

Ben Herberger:

Well, I'll shoot you a message and try and get that from you.

Trent Manning:

Yes, do it.

Get ready for tips and tricks.

Trent Manning:

What kind of tips and tricks you want to share with us?

Ben Herberger:

Oh man. So this tip is yeah, it's not mine. And I came across it working at the distributor and I don't know if you have to replace many of those like hydraulic blocks before. It's got, you know, 10 hoses going to it. What I ended up doing, I've tried the paint pen technique or, magic marker, all that, trying to get some indication of where each hose is supposed to go. It always seemed like it'd get rubbed off either between removing it or cleaning it up or whatever. And so what I ended up doing was grabbing a center punch. And putting a little dimple on either the crimp on the hose or on the block itself. And as long as those dimples matched up, I know that hose is going in the right slot on the new block.

Trent Manning:

Ah, okay.

Ben Herberger:

so that was that was something I came across when I was having to swap a block on an old 580d batwing mower.

Trent Manning:

Okay.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah,

Trent Manning:

the old 580, man. I had a love hate relationship with those. I had a customer and they maintained a military base, Fort Stewart. It was outside, a little south of Savannah. Extremely hot down there, swampy, buggy. Not a very friendly place. This gentleman had five of those and they were all old and he could work on them kind of, but he hated working on them. So he would call me and I mean, we've become pretty good friends and he was a good guy and all those things, but I spent a lot of time down there. And the craziest thing, the hydrostat on the 580D, you know, it's a huge hydrostat, but you know what I want to say?

Ben Herberger:

I got an idea. Go for it.

Trent Manning:

All right. The charge pump. So it's a little G rotor gear pump that's inside. It has a 16th inch keyway that drives the G rotor and that thing would shear. But so that, you know, those things had a metal hood, which was a heavy duty hood. We would raise the hood up and it had ROPS. And we'd take a four by four and put it over the rops and over the back of the hood. And then we had a chain hoist and we would unbolt everything and hoist the hydrostat up, take it apart right there, replace the 16th inch key and put it all back together again. You know, I mean, it was a day's work, but he had five of these machines and we did all five of them, you know, over a period of a year and a half.

Ben Herberger:

There you go, you got it perfected.

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Crazy

Ben Herberger:

shoot. I think the worst part of working on those 580Ds is trying to switch out those wheel motors. That one hard line, and it was always packed in there with grass and whatever, and become welded to the fitting, and there was no room to work underneath. Gosh, those things sucked.

Trent Manning:

Well, and so for the listeners, if you're not familiar with a Toro 580D, it has three 72 inch decks. So, it's yeah, whatever, sixteen feet of cut or whatever. So, they're, you know, it's Six foot that deck in the middle and the two wing decks that are six feet. And it was, yeah, it was a beast of a

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, did you did yours have the Persia or did it have the Cummins in it?

Trent Manning:

Now I think that's a good question. I want to say some of his had the Peugeot and some had the comics cause he had some different, yeah. And then I left the company before the 5, 900 came out, which replaced the five

Ben Herberger:

Yep.

Trent Manning:

Yep, good times.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, dude. I, so I never had to yank one of those Hydrostats out of the 580, but I did have to change one on a 5910

Trent Manning:

Oh, okay. Same thing. Yeah,

Ben Herberger:

a school district up in Vancouver and they probably hate my guts but no that thing was in the shop forever because Tori would only approve us to do so much work at any given time All right, so we had to test the wheel motors Well wheel motors were shot rear wheel motors were shot and it thrown shrapnel through the hydrostat And so by the time this thing left the shop, it had all four wheel motors and a hydrostat done. And this is probably the single sketchiest thing I've ever done. I had that 5910 up on the lift with the rear axle up on jack stands, the front wheels supported by, you know, those lift jacks. And I had to run the dang thing. And I had to do that to pull the hoses from the bottom of pump, do all this stuff. And then I had to run that thing up on the lift, you know, six feet in the air to try and bleed the system to see if the thing worked or if I had any leaks. And, man, I was so happy when that thing finally left the shop, but yeah, that took forever.

Trent Manning:

That's crazy. I remember Toro came out right as right before I left. They came out with a filtration kit and it was mainly for the 5510. because they would have a wheel motor go out and it would take out the whole hydrostatic system and take out every motor and the hydrostat and everything. And yeah, so you had to filter the whole thing. I was a process.

Ben Herberger:

Yep.

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Crazy

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, we had one of those. Used that too. That thing. We only had one and we, that one bounced between the three shops that were up in the P& W and so you had to try and organize with a truck that was going that way or a salesman that was going up and yeah, it was fun, it was good times.

Trent Manning:

Yep. Good stuff. You got anything else you want to share with us?

Ben Herberger:

Man, I think probably the only thing that I've got that might be something I'd like to talk about and I think it might be good and kind of tie into some of the other stuff we brought up is when you are on a job hunt or you're looking at the jobs on the job board. It's not just, it's not just the bottom line. It's not just the benefits package or the name associated with it. It really comes down to, can you work with whoever your boss is? Can you, are you two going to be a good match? Are you going to be the jiang? Are you guys going to be oil and water and just completely. into a toxic relationship. Um, and in that, you know, have a conversation. Remember, the interview goes both ways. He's interviewing you to see if you are good for the job and you're interviewing him to see if you're going to be good for the job. God knows I've taken jobs in the past where I wasn't the guy. I shouldn't have been the guy, but I took it and I got into a bunch of hot water by doing it. So yeah,

Trent Manning:

that's some really good advice. Really good advice. Yeah, I love it. And I do think, you know, I know people that they just kind of, they jump, they're always looking for the next dollar and a lot of times it don't work out the best for them.

Ben Herberger:

Nah,

Trent Manning:

and not for a dollar, you know, if it's something substantial, you know, life changing money, you know, maybe, but still. I mean, there's a lot of good jobs out there. I mean, a lot of high end jobs. I'm not gonna say they're good jobs. A lot of high paying jobs. And I don't even think twice about them because I'm so happy where I'm at. And I know what I got. You know, I know what I'm working with. I'm very fortunate where I'm at. Um, we have, you know, plenty of resources and I'm compensated. well enough and you know, I'm happy, you know, and

Ben Herberger:

That's what it

Trent Manning:

what is the price of being happy,

Ben Herberger:

Exactly. I think there's a number some guys have in their mind they put up with for, oh, I'll put up with the raging angry guy or the alcoholic or whatever for X dollars. Well, won't be long before that paycheck doesn't seem big enough to put up with the BS you're having to deal with.

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah, for

Ben Herberger:

Man, if you've got it good someplace that's worth its weight in gold. If you're happy with the place you have to spend the majority of your waking hours, then that's not a bad thing.

Trent Manning:

Yep.

Ben Herberger:

not a bad thing at all.

Trent Manning:

Well, and the other thing I want to say is if you're not that happy at your place, is there a way you can become happy? At that same place, you know, and not, I know there's times it's probably better just to walk away, but I do think there's times where you can communicate. And I mean, everything I've learned, in my life is open communication. If you're open with somebody, it ain't easy. I'm not saying it's easy to be open, but if you openly communicate with somebody more than likely. the situation is going to get better. And if not, you go your separate ways.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, you know, I think most good things, most important things that are worth doing in life are not the easy things. Like, it's yeah, it's worth having that conversation. It's worth trying to see if it is something you can work out, and I think that, honestly, if you can, well, we're a mechanic, we diagnose things, right? Now, it's not too long before we can spot the flaws in whatever. Our boss our relationships, all of these different things. If you can see that flaw, and you know that's a problem, and you can do something to fill it. And or communicate that or be the gap between whatever that is and the rest of the guys I mean you can make that a really good relationship and you just got to put in the effort to do it.

Trent Manning:

And if you're going to spend that much time with other people, might as well make it worth everybody's wild.

Ben Herberger:

Absolutely. Do your best to make sure you at least like the guy Yeah

Trent Manning:

you sign the dotted line, definitely.

Ben Herberger:

Absolutely.

Trent Manning:

Oh, let's do some rapid fire.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, hit me.

Trent Manning:

What's your favorite movie?

Ben Herberger:

Dude, master and commander for me. That's

Trent Manning:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a good one.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, man, anytime that comes on I'm like, oh, okay. This is where I'm parking it for the next bit Yeah,

Trent Manning:

Won't be your last meal.

Ben Herberger:

yeah, my last meal would probably be a, you know, prime rib, some roasted potatoes, and a nice peaty scotch

Trent Manning:

Okay. Yeah. What is a PD scotch?

Ben Herberger:

oh man, I take it you're not much of a scotch guy

Trent Manning:

No, not at all. Um I do not like lighter fluid in the least.

Ben Herberger:

Well, then I definitely won't be offering you any, but a nice a peaty scotch. It's kind of got that campfire flavor towards the back end. It's that smoky

Trent Manning:

Okay. All right. All right.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah. And it's acquired taste, but

Trent Manning:

Oh yes. Let's see. When was this? A couple of weeks ago, I went up for the Eric Duncanson Memorial Golf Tournament in North Carolina. And Eric Duncanson was a fellow equipment manager that passed away three years ago. Luckily his wife and daughter was at the tournament and I got to see them. Um, really great, humble, great people. And Eric was a close friend of mine. And every year he would have a steel class at his shop in North Carolina. And I would drive up usually the day before, and I'd spend the night at his house and hang out with him and his family and go to the class the next day and come back home. But Eric. was from Scotland. And he really liked his scotch. Really liked his scotch. So I'm at his house one night and he says try this. And he's telling me all about scotch and for it to be a scotch, it's got to be aged in Scotland for 10 years. I don't remember all the rules, but you know, just ad libbing here, but he's telling me all these rules and he's telling me how old this one was. And he's like, what do you think about that? And I'm like, It's terrible, Eric. This is the worst thing I've ever put in my mouth.

Ben Herberger:

Silence.

Trent Manning:

And he says, okay, hang on. And he gets this other one out that's supposed to be a lot better. And I'm like no difference. It is terrible. It's just as terrible.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah.

Trent Manning:

And then we get to the third one that's supposed to be, you know, the creme de la creme, I guess, of scotches. And he's like, Oh, you're going to love this one. And I'm like, no, Eric, it tastes just like the first day you gave me. They're terrible.

Ben Herberger:

Yep. Yep.

Trent Manning:

so I understand it's an acquired taste.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, absolutely. And I take it you're not much of a drinker, then.

Trent Manning:

Not anymore. Um, so yeah, I quit, I guess, I don't know, two years ago, probably drinking. And yeah, I mean, before that I wasn't ever much on whiskey or liquor, you know, I was more of a beer drinker. I really enjoy an IPA. Um, you know, I'm a big IPA guy. Um, I love, and we got some good IPAs around here too.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, I'm from I'm from the Portland area. So that's kind of home for the micro brew and

Trent Manning:

Oh

Ben Herberger:

iPAs are everywhere around there, man. I Don't think I've had an IPA from from Georgia at all.

Trent Manning:

Let's, I'm thinking Jekyll Brewery, Hop Dang Diggity is a really good one. Um, yeah, but who knows what y'all get out there in Jackson Hole from Atlanta. Probably not a whole lot. Um, Sweetwater Brewery is really big here in Atlanta. I think it's a national brand now. Um, but you know, and it's okay, but we're going to be making everybody really thirsty in this episode.

Ben Herberger:

I have to get a feeling. Yeah. Scotch sales will be amazing and the Atlanta breweries won't be able to keep up.

Trent Manning:

That's right. That's right. Well, what are you most proud of besides your family?

Ben Herberger:

Oh, well, definitely. I'm proud of my family, but the thing I'm most proud of is when I get to watch an assistant technician catch something like he figures out or he's finally mastered whatever skill I was trying to teach him. My last, last course I was at my assistant there, gosh, that guy was great. Yeah, he would catch on to anything after I showed him once, and it was the best thing. Made me made me proud, and it probably had nothing to do with me. It was mostly

Trent Manning:

Oh yeah.

Ben Herberger:

yeah, no, it was that's the thing that I get most most joy out of, is watching somebody I'm teaching, you know, catch on to whatever it is I'm showing them.

Trent Manning:

Oh, yeah, for sure. Hands down, 100%. Nothing like it. Probably the most rewarding you can feel.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, absolutely.

Trent Manning:

Alright, that's been my experience anyway.

Ben Herberger:

Well, that's, yeah,

Trent Manning:

you see that.

Ben Herberger:

it's one of my favorite things about being an equipment manager is getting to have those assistants and get to teach you know, I'm probably fairly young really, but teach the next generation of equipment managers, the next generation of techs, like, and watch them catch on to it. That's the thing that I get a lot of pleasure and joy out of working in this industry.

Trent Manning:

I get really excited about younger people taking the initiative or, you know, just wanting to learn, you know, how to work with their hands. And I know, you know, when I was a kid growing up, you know, it just come natural, I guess I always wanted to be working with my hands and figuring out how things worked and, but It seems like you don't see that as often now, but hopefully it's still out there. We're just not seeing it as much. And I think some of it is opportunity to a lot of these younger people don't have the opportunities that even I had when I was in high school because we had a construction class and automotive class. You know, they did well then, I mean, all the, you know, trades was there. So you had a chance in high school to kind of get your hands on things.

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, it's definitely yeah, it's dwindled a lot in the last few years. I think my class going through high school was the last they offered autoshop to. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's kind of sad to see that happen, but I hope that more people out there are willing to put down I don't know, it's probably not a soapbox, but willing to put down their phones and actually dive into the real world to a certain extent. Like there are these machines, there are these things that are around you that are marvels and wonders and you're stuck on Tik Tok or Twitter and You're hoping to be an influencer and really, I mean, maybe there's some joy and happiness in that, but I think you'll be so much more satisfied turning around at the end of the day and being like, yeah, man, we fixed some stuff. We built some stuff today. pretty dang

Trent Manning:

Yeah. Yeah. And I've heard plenty of people that went to college, got a degree and whatever. And then they're sitting in a cubicle looking outside and they're just miserable. And. You know, why, how would you want to spend your life or why would you spend your life short? Why would you spend it in a cubicle doing something that makes you miserable?

Ben Herberger:

creating widgets for somebody else to make. Yeah. No, it's I

Trent Manning:

And not that every day is, you know, roses at the golf course, but all in all, it's fun. I have fun.

Ben Herberger:

oh yeah, we get the benefit. Our shops are rarely in ugly locations or ugly settings. So that's a huge benefit. But no, I was I was on an engineering track in college before I ended up in this job. And I realized pretty quick in college that You know what? I hate sitting behind a computer all day. I would rather do anything. I'd rather go take a bath in a tub full of scorpions than have to do this in and out

Trent Manning:

I don't know about all that.

Ben Herberger:

Oh, for me it's that way.

Trent Manning:

Yeah.

Ben Herberger:

rather be doing something. On my feet, walking around, seeing something happen in the world.

Trent Manning:

Very good. We'll tell the listeners how they can get a hold of you. You on any of the socials, email?

Ben Herberger:

yeah, I think I'm on on Twitter. I think it's just my name, Ben Herberger. And then, I think I'm on LinkedIn. The same handle. And email wise, if somebody wants to shoot me an email, it's gonna be lengthy. It's bherberger at shootingstarjh. com and happy to talk to anybody that, that wants to talk to me here. If anybody ends up in the Jackson Hole area and wants to take a little peek at what we got going around the shop, reach out. More than happy to have anybody who wants to walk through the shop, come take a look.

Trent Manning:

Awesome. And you're in the WhatsApp group too, right?

Ben Herberger:

Yeah, I'm in the WhatsApp group, so.

Trent Manning:

Yep. So WhatsApp group, just reach out to me or any of the rest of the community. Um, you can find us, um, you can get in. I was speaking of which, somebody tried to add somebody today, and I gotta follow up on that. I just now remember, um, to do that, you know, that's my squirrel brain, hanging around J. R. Wilson too much. He texted me today, so I'm gonna blame it on J. R., squirreling, squirreling out over here. I love that dude. Thank you so much, Ben, for being on, um, it's been fun, and I really hope I can get to Wyoming. Sooner rather than later.

Ben Herberger:

Absolutely. No it's been great to sit down and talk with you. I mean, I've watched some of your videos online. I've listened to podcasts before. So this is it's nice to actually put a real person to the damage you see on the screen

Trent Manning:

All right. Thank you, sir. thank you so much for listening to the Reel turf techs podcast. I hope you learned something today. Don't forget to subscribe. If you have any topics you'd like to discuss, or you'd like to be a guest, find us on Twitter at Reel turf techs.