Episode 118: Skip Heinz, CTEM

Welcome back to Episode 118 of the Reel Turf Techs Podcast! Two years after our first conversation with Skip Heinz, CTEM, Equipment and Facilities Manager at Royal Poinciana Golf Club in Naples, FL, we're diving deep into everything we missed the first time and exploring the state of the turf equipment management industry over his impressive 35-year tenure in golf.

Royal Poinciana Golf Club, a 36-hole golfing facility boasting tennis, pickleball, swimming, and various social activities, serves as the backdrop for Skip's reflections.

With four technicians in the shop and three in the facility maintenance department, Skip typically operates as the lone tech, occasionally receiving assistance from the crew. All his mowing equipment is Toro, complemented by a mix of allied equipment.

In this episode, we cover a wide range of topics, including how the industry has evolved, management styles, the essence of true leadership qualities (hint: shaming isn't one of them), and the critical importance of valuing employees in a challenging labor market.

Join us as we discuss the 7-day workweek culture for golf course technicians, the increasing role of cutting-edge technology in equipment management (hello, autonomous mowers!), and the environmental impact of battery technology.

And don't miss out on Skip's most important life lesson learned through his years of experience in the industry. It's an episode filled with wisdom, insights, and a deep dive into the ever-evolving world of turf equipment management on the Reel Turf Techs Podcast!

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Transcript

Trent Manning: 0:05

welcome to the reel turf techs podcast for the technician that wants to get reel follow along. As we talk to industry professionals and address hot topics that we all face along the way we'll learn tips and tricks. I'm your host, Trent. Manning let's have some Welcome to the real turf text podcast episode one 18. Today we're talking to skip Hines CTM. The equipment and facilities manager. At Royal Poinciana golf club in Naples, Florida. Royal Poinciana is a 36 hole golfing facility. The club features, tennis, pickle ball. Swimming and many other social activities. Skip has four technicians in the shop and three in the facility maintenance department. All his Mo and equipment is Toro. And he's got a mixed of allied stuff.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 1:00

Welcome skip to the real turf techs podcast. Thanks for coming on. How you been?

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 1:05

I'm good. Thanks, Trent, for having me. It's always a pleasure to talk to you, especially since I didn't make the show this year. Missed all my friends and all the good times out there, but duty calls at home.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 1:20

Oh yeah, no, we totally understand. We definitely missed you and it was really nice in Phoenix. That's the first time I'd ever been to the Southwest even, and I really enjoyed my time there.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 1:31

I'm hoping and praying that things work out where I can make it to this coming year's one. I always loved San Diego, but definitely if it was in Florida, again, it's always easy because it's only a three hour drive.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 1:44

right, right, right. Yeah. Well, you want to talk about a state of the industry? Um, this is, so Skip's been on before and I don't, do you remember what episode? It was early, early, early on.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 1:57

Oh, man. I

Trent Manning, CTEM: 1:58

Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I should, I should know that, but

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 2:01

It was, it was up there a little ways, but not too too high up.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 2:05

yeah, I want to say like six or something, maybe. Five, six, seven.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 2:10

I don't know. It

Trent Manning, CTEM: 2:11

I don't, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll figure that out in a minute. Um, yeah, it doesn't seem like that long ago. I will agree with that, but yeah, we just want to get on here and kind of talk about all the changes we've seen. So that's why we brought one of the oldest guys I know, um, from the industry to talk about it.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 2:34

Yeah, time is is, is flown by and it's hard to believe that, you know, I started working with my dad on the golf course when I was like 14. It's hard to believe that I started full time at 18. And golf course works really the only thing I've ever done. I stepped out for a year or so when I worked on heavy equipment and marine diesels, but was shortly introduced right back into the golf. And it's really all I know. It's hard to believe that, you know, I've been my fifties and I'm still here at the changes that have occurred over the past, you know, 20, 30, 40 years, or incredible from what I've seen when I was just seven, eight years old hanging out with my dad

Trent Manning, CTEM: 3:27

Oh, I'm sure. So how long have you been in the industry?

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 3:32

I guess I've been working professionally in it probably for 35 years now.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 3:39

Yeah, that's awesome. Very cool. And just,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 3:42

I don't have

Trent Manning, CTEM: 3:43

so, so everybody knows you were number 11. I looked it up.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 3:48

that's good. The

Trent Manning, CTEM: 3:49

episode.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 3:50

but I don't have any plans of retiring anytime soon. So I got to keep on going. I still feel young. I still feel good. I'm able to work and do everything that I did when I was, you know, 30 years old. So as long as I feel healthy, I'm going to keep on going because it's what I love to do. And it's the only thing I know how to do. So I don't see retirement in the future.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 4:16

But yeah, too, too late to change career paths. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 4:23

That's me.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 4:24

Yeah. I'm, I'm hopefully I'm only halfway through my life, but we'll see, we'll see probably over half. Um, yeah, let's talk.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 4:32

you never know.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 4:33

No, you never know. That's yeah. Tomorrow is not promised. Let's talk about, yeah. Some of the things that, that you've seen, you know, when you first got in to the industry, like management styles and how some of that stuff's changed over the years,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 4:50

Well, you know, management back then, I mean, superintendents were work in superintendents, you know, they were out on the golf course, they worked. It was a lot more yelling and people really got, you know, arguing back and forth versus what, what we see today where, you know, our management styles are really leaders that are trying to cultivate a good environment for people. You know, back then everybody needed a job. People were willing to, to work. These days you can't find people, you don't want to get them upset and have them walk off on you, and you can't yell at them because you'll find yourself in a legal battle, and you want them to like you and respect you, and you're not going to get that by the old management styles where, you know, some of the old school superintendents, my dad was one, I mean I could just remember him just going off when things weren't right, but you know. It's really became more about the people and the environment that you create these days. As far as what a leadership role is. I guess when I think about leadership, the way I explain it to people around here at the club when I'm talking about things that go wrong and especially find it mostly up in F and B because there's so many managers, but they want to stand back and say, you know, Well, I asked you to do this, or I told you to do this. And I, I go, what's the first part of the word leadership leader? When you're in a race, who wins the leader? So what does that tell you? When you talk about leadership, you need to be out in the front, not in the back. And to me, that's what a good leader is. He's the guy out front leading his team and pulling them up that hill and leaving no one behind. And you can't just be in the back and trying to lead. You have to be out in the front. And that's what really, to me, what the epitome of leadership is when I think about it.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 7:18

yeah. How much do you think Somebody that's working under you, how much they respect or even know when you can do the same job that they're doing, I mean, something I think about all the time anyway, is, and it's something I say is I'm not going to ask anybody that works for me to do something I wouldn't be willing to do. And most of the time that I hadn't done before. Um, so anyway, I think it does. Help that, you know, you already know what to do, but, you know, it's a little different, um, when a younger person is learning to do that same thing. And that's probably been one of the biggest challenges for me is letting them fail because I don't want to see them fail. You know what I mean? That wastes his time, wastes his money, all those things. But it's been so much better since I've said, okay, here's the task. Let me know if you need any help. And you know, sometimes they'll come say, I'm having trouble with this. I'm having trouble with that. And then other times they just do it. Do they do it the way I would do it? No, never. 0 percent of the time, and that used to really bother me because I was in my head saying, I know the most efficient way to do this. I know the best way to do this. You ever been there?

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 8:45

Yeah, especially when I was a superintendent I used to tell my assistants and, and the, and the crew, I'd give them a job and say, you know, this is how to do it. Now, if you can find a better way to do it. then that's fine as long as the results are as good, if not better, than what I expect by doing them my way. If it comes out messed up and you've changed the plan, then we're gonna have a problem. But you know, most of the time I try, these days, I try to solicit ideas from them when I give the assignment and tried to ask them. And, you know, when I think about management 30 years ago versus today, I remember my head used to be the size of a fricking beach ball when I got promoted to assistant, you know, and I walked around telling everybody what to do and it had to be my way and, you know, or it was the highway. And, you know, now I have a real problem when, like, Saturday, one of my facilities guys, you know, he brought his daughter to work and because I guess his wife had to work or was sick and you know, I didn't mind. He's making his rounds and it's a short morning for him and he introduces me and introduces me as his boss and I've told him before that I don't like it when you call me your boss. It's like it bothers me. I don't like the title I like to tell them that we're a team and I'm like the quarterback and you're the lineman. I'm the guy who's responsible to call the plays and you execute them. You know, doesn't make me, I don't like the title, the boss. I just want to be a team member who leads. And that's what I, you know, I tell people, you don't need a fancy title. That's all. to be a leader. You just need to be a person who is willing to help pull everybody else along. And when you can do that and when you jump in, when you're gone and there's a problem, those guys are the first ones to jump in and, and take care of it. You know, and a big thing for us are like the sewers and the grease traps, but those guys will dive in there and, and take care of it when I'm gone because they know when I'm here, I'm usually the first one to go in there and start ordering it out or get the jetter and start jetting out the drains with them. And, um, it's like what you said, you know, you don't want to ask somebody to do something you wouldn't do yourself. And the best way to teach them is to, you know, to get right in there with them and work along the side of them.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 11:46

Yeah, I agree. And you're talking about, you know, being a leader and it didn't matter your position or your title and all that stuff. And I think about it because I've seen it. I don't know how many times just at the crew level, one of those people on the crew will shine out as a leader. And you can tell it, you know, I mean, it's just in their personality or the way they care of their self or whatever. And a lot of the other crew members look up to them,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 12:11

Yep.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 12:12

you know, I mean, it happens all the time.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 12:14

Yep. You know, it's it's funny too, because like, I actually put a post on Twitter this morning because there was a a question was asked. Like, when your crew breaks stuff and they bring the parts into the shop, like, here you go. Like, it's no big deal. Do you clean them up and put their name on it and give it back to them? And the answer is, is no. For me is no, because when I got here, they had a rack full of busted reels and bed knives, and they had the guy's operator's names written on the parts. And so, I started throwing them out and they said, what are you doing? And so I'm getting rid of it. And they go, well, this is all the people that wrecked the reels and stuff. And so I just looked at them and I said, you know, I know for myself, taking the equipment apart that. I've damaged things, tearing something apart and broke it and had to replace it. None of us know at all. So you're going to make mistakes and break stuff here in the shop. And I expect you to, because that's the only way you're going to learn. But when you do it, do you want me to take that part, put your name on it and hang it up so that all the crew sees what you messed up? And they're like, no. And I'm like, well. Think about how they feel when they come in and they see that there every day. Do you think they want to come back in the shop? No. I go that's why they don't bring stuff and tell you it's broke because every time they look at it you're there or come in this building you're making them feel like crap and I go that's not what we're about. I have to make them feel valued and when there is an issue we need to work with them and find out why it's happening as there's always a root cause to why it keeps happening and we can find it and eliminate it through training or fixing whatever it is in the field that they keep hitting. But, you know, we have to build that team and we have to build their, their trust where they're not afraid to come to the shop. Now, was I always that wise? No. 10 years ago? Absolutely not. I mean, maybe not even that long ago, maybe as much as eight years ago. But in the past seven years, seven and a half years, I've realized that, you know, what the most important thing is, is making sure these people feel valued and that they can come to you without fear of being yelled at, or, you know, made to feel like a piece of crap. I mean, we're all just trying to make a living and go

Trent Manning, CTEM: 15:00

Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day, that's the only reason we're there. Yeah. How much has that helped over the years value in the employees?

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 15:10

Because my guys in the shop, their positions around here for assistance that are paying as much as my top guys are getting and they could walk out of here and get one of those jobs in a second, but they don't, they don't even look because they're treated good here and they know that not only just myself, but the other leadership. in this department value them too and they know it and they know when they have a problem they can come to us and and we're here for them and whatever you know to the point that we even care about their their families and we want to make sure you know if they need something for them that they're taken care of

Trent Manning, CTEM: 15:59

Oh yeah, for sure. You know, I've, I've tell the story several times, but I'll tell it again. The guy I worked for when I worked for Jerry Pate, his name's Bruce Dowland. He's still the service manager there at the Atlanta branch for Jerry Pate. And I say he's one of the best bosses I ever had because every time he would call me or I would call him the first thing out of his mouth is how's your family, how's your kids doing? Whether he cared or not, he seemed like he cared and that just went a real long, you know, a long way with me. He never, you know, it was never business out of his mouth. It was always personal to start with. And then he would follow it up with whatever business we had to take care of. You know, and I'm, I think it's just a better way to work with people that way.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 16:50

yeah you know i don't i don't network with the membership here as much as what some of the supervisors do but I have two members that were, that were on the board and the one, every time he returns from Canada, I'm like, he's one of his first stops and he comes in to see me and the first thing he asks is, you know, how's my wife doing and how's my family and did I have a good, you know, summer and the same thing with the other gentleman who was the president. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. First thing he's, when he sees me he says hello and ask, how's your wife? And you know, that's nice. Not how things around the club or that, but you know, it's how's your, how's your wife? And when you have that from your members that were on the board, that really makes you feel good. Um, especially that they re they remember it and it's on their mind that they think about it and, and ask you. And you know, and some of the employees that, you know, around here have done the same, you know, my boss is you know, he's been very supportive through the whole ordeal with Devin or cancer battle. And the whole club really has been supportive. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why I'm still here. You know, not sure I would have lasted at another club, um, going through what I'm going through, um, because, you know, there's. Not that I don't stay focused, but there are times where I just have to up and go and I have to rely on my, on, on my staff to, to fill that void. And, you know, they could easily just say, Hey, hey, I'm taking care of things and we can handle it. You don't need him. But

Trent Manning, CTEM: 18:43

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that happens, you know, unfortunately happens all the time, you know, somebody leaves for, you know, whatever, you know, family sickness or whatever, and they're not there for a little while. And they say, okay, we don't need you anymore. know what I mean? It's a shame that places do that, but it does happen. So yeah, you're very fortunate to work for a club and facility like that.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 19:07

I get it. You know, we have responsibilities not only to home, but to our jobs and we have to take care of business. That's why when I'm here, I try to stay focused. And also too, when I have the time allows, when I see an email with an issue at the club, come across my phone and I'm at home on a Saturday afternoon. That's why I'll come back and try to fix it or work on it. You know, sometimes it's two hours, sometimes it's eight or nine hours, but going that extra mile pays off in the long run because when I do need to be gone, they know that. You know, I'm not just going to take advantage of the situation that when times come and I need to be here, that they can count on me to come back and get it done.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 19:52

Yeah, no, I, yeah, I think that's great. And one thing that I hate to admit, but I'm going to admit it anyway for a long time on Monday morning and I normally don't work the weekends or I hadn't for quite a few years on Monday morning. Come into work. I'm ready to get stuff done. And some people that work for me wanted to talk about what they've done on the weekend. I could care less what you've done all the weekend. I'm here to get work done. And, you know, I was so ignorant, naive, whatever you want to call it. You know, not. Engaging with them about what they did on the weekend, because I was there to get work done. And I think some of that comes from, you know, the old mentality, like when you first got in the industry, when I first got into the industry and the way I was raised is. It's, you know, if it's time to work, it's time to work. We don't need to be BS and talking about anything else. Let, you know, let's get it done. And I've definitely changed a lot just recently to, you know, ask them, yeah, what'd you do this weekend? What's going on? You know. And even on Friday before we leave, you know, you got plans this weekend, what you're doing, you know, I mean, all those things. And I think, you know, I've, I've seen a positive impact from that.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 21:16

Yeah. And you know, I mean, sometimes you come in on a Monday morning and there are fires you got to put out, so you don't have time for it right away. But I think when you work with people long enough, they learn when the, when those priorities pop up and they know that to get beside you and, um, work to get it done. And then once that fire's put out, then there's the, you know, then there's the slow down period to say, hey, man, let me get a chance to ask you, you know, we got off to a fast start this morning, but you know, how, how, how'd the weekend go? You have a good time, do anything exciting besides work here, whatever. And so I, I think when, once you start treating people like that, I. and they're with you for a while, I think they get to know that, you know, Hey, we got priorities. We got to kick out first thing. And then we can, you know, and we can sit down and grab a cup of coffee because, you know, some mornings, some mornings we get coffee first thing, you know, other mornings we get coffee at eight o'clock, you

Trent Manning, CTEM: 22:22

Yeah. Right. Yeah. It all

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 22:24

depends. Yep.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 22:25

So how much do you think it's changed, you know, in the recent years on technicians not being at the course 24 seven. And the reason I ask that, because I've seen, I mean, a lot of clubs where they got it set up, they got enough, you know, extra cutting units or whatever the case may be, that they don't have to have a technician there on Saturday and Sunday.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 22:50

You know, I wish I could say, I've seen it change a lot, but I, I haven't, I have worked for individuals that, when I was hired, actually told me, I know you think I'm crazy, but everybody gets two days off. And the way we had it was, you know, I had Saturday and Sunday off. One technician had Friday and Saturday off, and the other one had Sunday and Monday off. So we always had somebody there to set mowers. And I asked the guys too, do you want to change? Do you want to rotate? And they're like, no, we've had it like that for a while. So we'll, we'll keep it that way. And then they would, when it was a holiday, they would just alternate so that everybody got a chance to make the extra money. And that was good. Here, because I have four guys, we rotate the weekends. So one guy works Saturday and Sunday, but then he's off three weekends in a row. And then and then he's back on. And then I pretty much work every Saturday morning and I'm off on Sunday. There are weekends where I'll take the, you know, the whole weekend off. But, you know, I wish I was back to where I had, you know, Saturday and Sunday off. But, um, my facilities guys, there's three of them. So, during the season, which is now, They're on three hours, three and a half on Saturday and like two to two and a half on Sunday, but they work every third weekend. And then in the off season, they only work Saturday mornings for like two and a half hours and that's it, you know, work every third weekend. So that's how, how we run it. But, you know, we're, we also don't really get a slowdown period either, you know, we're three. 365.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 24:47

Right. Right. Right. No, no. I mean, that's something I've, I've seen around here more, you know, technicians that get to go home on the weekends. And I mean, I think, I think it's really good and there's been, you know, the big push for the work life balance. And I remember I told this story on a podcast not long ago, I think, but, um, I'm at John Patterson shop. And Mike Rollins is there and Mike Rollins says, how do y'all handle the work life balance? And John Patterson said, my whole career has been a work work balance, you know, and you didn't have a life. So, you know, I mean, I didn't even know how to answer the question and I can't say anything either because, you know, that's the way I was. It was all work, no life. And I do think it's good that we're worried about life now.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 25:41

and, and you know, the way John answered that question, I would have to, you know, agree with it as far as if somebody asked me that question too. And I've tried to get a decent work life balance. And it's hard. It's been hard. It's been hard for me to disconnect from work when we go on vacation. Because from the day I take off, I'm answering phone calls or emails or text messages the entire time to the point where my wife is like, just, you know, turn the phone off or, you know, don't answer. And I'm like, well, I can't, I got to take this, you know? And it's like, you know, I finally got to the point where I take some of them, but not as much as I used to. And it's like, you know, they got to learn to figure stuff out without me. And I think I, I see that with John too on social media with his wife posting when they're going on, you know, trips or for the weekend. And I think since he's been at the Atlanta athletic club, I think he's, and his son's gotten a little older, they've started doing more stuff together. I think he started doing a little bit more stuff away from work and getting that that home. home life balance going for him where he's got, you know, we can actually say he's got a balance between work and, and personal.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 27:17

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I just, you know, and I hadn't known John that long, just since he's moved up here to Atlanta. And I want to say that was five years ago, but you know, it's probably been seven or eight because time goes by so quick and just, you know, from what I know, I think he's does get a little bit of a break now and gets to, yeah. Enjoy family. Yeah,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 27:44

it. And I think the nice thing about John is, is that, you know, Lucas knows that if John's not there, things are taken care of. And he knows that if something needs to be taking care of John's there. And I think when you have that kind of relationship, that gives you a little bit more freedom to come and go. Um, as where a lot of people want to micromanage and they want to know your every move. So, I want to know when you're gone. I want to know when you return. You need to be here at this time and you got to work till this time. It's like, man, lighten up. It's like, I get the stuff done, you know. I'm going to be here when I need to be and when I don't, um, I'm not. And, you know, if you see me on a weekend, on a Saturday or Sunday, know that I got something to do. If I'm not here, know I got it taken care of and I got a backup plan in place. And, you know,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 28:44

exactly. Right.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 28:45

that's the way it should be when you, when you prove yourself. And, um, but again, I think a lot of that is earned, you know, some can't

Trent Manning, CTEM: 28:53

Oh yeah.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 28:54

People just can't walk into it and expect it, you know, and you've got to put in your time and, you know, build that reputation and that respect level between your leaders and, um, and yourself. And they've got to have that trust in you to, you know, know that and not everybody does. So,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 29:14

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, honestly, that's why I've been at the place I've been at for so long. Is I like who I work with and I know he's got my back and yeah, he doesn't micromanage me. Well,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 29:30

people at other clubs. I had one of the assistants even tell me, oh, if you want to make it in this business, and this is after I've been in it for a long time, that you want to make it in this industry, you got to start putting in more time. And I'm like, no, you need to learn how to, uh, manage your time better. And he goes, oh, you think you can get all this stuff done? And I go, no. Yeah, I do actually, because I did 54 holes in three locations with no overtime and with, with the city golf course. And honestly, it looked just as good as what you're doing here with all these people working, working them 70 hours a week. So, yeah, I do. I mean, it's called time management and you got to utilize your staff and this mentality of if we're not working 60 or 70 hours a week, we're not committed to the industry. That's got to go out the window. It's a bunch of BS, you know, and it's like we, we average 50, 53 hours a week here, but that's primarily, they do it because our grounds crew wants to work it because they want the money. And so we try not to shortchange them. So. We average a 50 you know, a 50 hour a week, um, and, you know, I would say for golf at a high level, you know, 40 to 50 hours, 45 to 50 hours is acceptable. I mean, I think we all, all do that. And, you know, I think John probably does it at Atlanta Athletic Club with this, with no problem at all, you know, probably 50, 53 hours a week. Yeah. But, you know, there are weeks where, hey, you deserve a break, man. Get out of there.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 31:28

that's, you know, the good thing about up here where we're at in Georgia, we do have four seasons, unlike y'all in Florida and from October to February, the pressure's off. I'm not saying we're not busy and we're not doing stuff, but the pressure's off.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 31:45

Yep.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 31:46

then, you know, it's go time once the springs here and the grass starts growing. So it is nice to get that little bit of a break. Yeah. And if I work 50 hours every week or 55 hours every week in the summer, um, you know, 35 in the winter,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 32:02

Yep.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 32:03

You know, it all depends. And, you know, a lot of that is on the person too. And, you know, I don't, I have, I'm a workaholic and I've definitely struggled with that and I think I've got better in the recent years, but I mean, it's tough for me not to be at the golf course.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 32:24

you know, that's me. I, I long for vacations. I, you know, I'm like, I get all juiced up. I can't wait to get out of here. But my vacation span, I'll put in and take a week or two weeks off. But after two days, I'm ready to be back at work. And I don't know. That's all on my mind is just. You know, ready to get back to work. I want to do this. I want to do that. You know, I'm thinking about all the stuff I could be doing or need to do, but that was nice about being in Michigan. It was like, I used to tell my in laws that, you know, they'd be like, well, can't you come here for a few days for this or that? And I'm like, how long have you, I've been married to your sister? You know, I'm in the golf business. And from March one, Till November 1st it's go time for me. And, you know, that's the season. That's what they pay me for from November, December, January, February. I could do whatever you want forever, how long you want, but the rest of the time I gotta be at work. You know, I can't take a week off during the, in the spring. Yeah. I

Trent Manning, CTEM: 33:37

my director of agronomy. He's been there. I think this is his 35th year, might be 36th year. And up until two years ago, he had never taken a summer vacation. And two years ago, he took his first summer vacation right in the middle of the summer, which was, you know, like, is this really happening? You know, I couldn't believe it, but he was actually doing that. So, I mean, the industry has definitely changed.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 34:04

A lot of managers are encouraging that. And I think it's becoming more of the norm that it's not so much of when you take your vacations anymore as long as you have the staff in place and you have your bases covered, and like I said, as long as you have a plan A and a plan B while you're gone everything is, I think people are starting to accept that. You still have these people that think, you know, 70, 80 hour work weeks are, are what the business is about. I look around, I've gotten calls and it, I, I know what these guys work schedules are like. And so I, I'm just like, I'm, I'm not interested. I mean, yeah, money's good, but the money ain't worth going back to that kind of nonsense again. I mean, I'm not getting, I'm not getting any younger. I know I said I still feel like I'm 30 and still can do the job, but that doesn't mean I can do it for 70 hours a week, you know, 50 weeks out of the year.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 35:02

right, right, right. Yeah. And I mean, that's something I've thought about too. You know, I've seen some of these jobs come open that are paying, you know, really good money and think, man, I want to do that. And then I think about it, you know, you, you basically have to throw your life away at places like that. That's paying that kind of money. And you know, if you're a younger person or you're not married, you don't have a family, you know, whatever the deal is, maybe that it's a good fit for you. But for me at my age, that's not a good fit. I want to, I want to be able to do other things.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 35:37

and it all goes back to that key word, leadership. Having a leader that actually cultivates the type of culture and environment that your employees want to be in and can experience those things where, Hey, I can go on vacation with my family. I don't have to feel guilty. I'm not married to the place and they get it. And, you know, so I think we're seeing more and more of that and, hopefully we'll get to the point where we see more and more people start, recognizing the fact that. Hey, we got enough equipment. Like you said, here's your moors for the weekend. You know, if I used to do a Kalamazoo country club, I'd have them lined up. I'd pop in on a Saturday morning and just check, make sure everything's okay. I didn't have to do nothing. And then I just come in early Monday morning and adjust everything if I needed to, and it's good to go. Or they, leave me a note and say, Hey, we had a problem with this moor and we have this one. That'll be good.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 36:40

Right. Yep.

Trent Manning: 36:41

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Trent Manning, CTEM: 37:16

Well, let's talk about equipment and how much that's changed. What's some of the biggest innovations you've seen equipment wise.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 37:24

Oh, man, it's all, it's, it all does the same exact thing, but man, has it changed. I mean, when my dad was superintendent, you know, we had two pole frames and you had to get off the tractor and drop them and engage them to mow. And then when you had, had to go from one hole to the next, you had to get off and raise them back up and turn them off. And, you know, pretty much everything was mowed one height, you mowed it. t boxes and I went right across into the fairway and everything was was one height and when they called it rough it was rough and

Trent Manning, CTEM: 38:03

hmm.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 38:04

and the green s'mores were still there's just some of them out and people use them with the old Toro 500 series s'mores

Trent Manning, CTEM: 38:12

Mm hmm.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 38:13

you know I remember my dad you know putting new bed knives on and sitting there lapping them in on the workbench you know with this manual lapper and so Range moors and fairway moors have really changed, but from the time I started, you know, and I don't know if you remember them, but, you know, Jacobson came out with the F 10 and then the HF 15, and the HF 15 was their hydraulic version, and if you had that fairway unit, it was a monster. But if you had that, you were high tech back then, and, you know, you were your own boss. You were your assistant. There were no assistants in shops back then. There were no lifts. Um, you got somebody to help you put it up on the bench if you needed it on the bench to rebuild the cutting unit or you just did it on the shop floor and then you had to fully manual grinder and you cranked it up with a hand winch like you're pulling your boat on a trailer and I can remember flipping those things around and stuff and It's like, no wonder my back hurts. And then, you know, engines were, they were all Kohlers and the K series. And then they went to the Magnums and all cast iron blocks. And, you know, he did a lot of rebuilds back in those days and had to lift them up to the bench, no assistant, no lift. Then you got to these shops that had the little table that's like the motorcycle shops out. And we've got one couple here. But we had, if you had a shop that had one of those, you were high tech. And so the engines and the lightweight equipment has really evolved. The size of the cutting heads, the weight of'em you know, a lot of the technology, the hybrid stuff, the computers you take the guys who worked back, were. older than I was that, you know, teaching me or that I looked at that said, wow, these guys got it together. You take those guys now, they wouldn't be able to work on the equipment we work on because it's so sophisticated that, you have to be willing to take, adapt to the change and realize that, we need to learn computers. We need to learn scanning equipment. how to hook up and how to program injectors and marry a new injection pump to a a fairly more when we put it in. it's just not as simple as just changing that stuff out anymore and away you go. You get a set of injectors, you gotta code them. And, do we do that here? Not yet. But, I do know guys that are doing it. One guy that's good at doing that kind of stuff, but he's got a platform. I don't know if it was his or if it belonged to the club, but he just recently moved again. But Matthew Crane.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 41:14

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 41:16

Yeah,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 41:16

yeah. He's over in brain now. I think,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 41:19

Yeah, he was in the Bahamas and then he went to Dubai for a while. I think is where he was at and then he just recently moved. But I know when he was in the Bahamas, I believe, where he was at he had the setup where he could program the injectors for his Bobcat and Kubota engines and stuff like that.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 41:39

yeah, yeah,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 41:39

So, yeah, you

Trent Manning, CTEM: 41:40

yeah. And I don't remember the name of the program, but I've seen somebody in Phoenix and they were telling me about a program where, yeah, you could get into deer stuff and Toro stuff. And it's like five grand for the program. So it'd be hard, you know, for a club to justify that, but. You know, if you get enough equipment, that's tier four and you need that, that it might not be that hard to justify.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 42:06

I know we've had, with with our Tier 4, we've had some issues and we've had to have, Toro come out and and then even with one of our new hybrids, we've had problems. They had to come out and put the computer on it. we could only diagnose it to, you know, a certain point. Same thing with our tractors that we bought, they're all computerized now, and we had one that was, I forget what the issue was, but it was something simple, but the guy couldn't figure it out and he was back and forth, back and forth, and he didn't tell me it was, had just went out of So they sent me this big, huge bill and I'm like, Hey, look, the guy didn't even know what he was doing. And if he would have told me that it was out of warranty, I go, we would have kept swapping parts from one tractor to the other like he was doing ourself. It saved us a couple grand. So they kind of readjusted it, but we still ended up, you know, eating a lot.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 43:06

I'm curious. Was it Kubota?

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 43:09

No, it was actually a Massey Ferguson.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 43:11

Okay.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 43:12

And it's which they're great tractors because they don't have all the. Tier 4, they don't have all the regen, um, emissions on them like, um, a lot of the stuff you get from Toro. But no, it's it was actually a Kubota, or unlike the Kubotas, it's a Massey Ferguson, and it doesn't have all the regen stuff on it like the Kubotas have. And they're able to meet the Tier 4 admissions, but everything is still computerized on there and it would not throttle up past like a quarter throttle or half throttle almost like it was in limp mode. And it ended up being something with a wire going to the alternator, which is, is weird, but it just had a bad, bad wiring connection. Going to the alternator, which affected the readings and the computer system, but it took the guy a long time to figure it out. Yeah. But for as many of'em as we have, that was the only one that gave us trouble. And we've got probably I'm thinking we've got like eight new, new masses.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 44:32

Yeah. I don't, I don't have any, any experience with Massey.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 44:35

the old ones, the ones we've been getting rid of the two 40 threes. I mean, they've been. You know, they're indestructible. They got the old Perkins motor in them. They're all manual. Once you start them up, you can go forever.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 44:47

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah. I had a couple of John Deere's like that.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 44:51

but the cutting units have probably been the biggest change. I mean, gosh, you know, that, you know, I'm ever, having a nine blade reel for greenspores and, now you're using 11 blades on fairways. And we've got 14 and I think there's a, I know there's a 15 blade reel out there. I don't know if anybody's come out with a 16 yet or not, but

Trent Manning, CTEM: 45:16

Just a matter of time.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 45:18

yeah, but the cutting

Trent Manning, CTEM: 45:19

That'd be fun to relief grind 16 bladed real.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 45:23

yeah, I remember John was, I think, probably the first one that probably put a relief on a 14 blade, set it up on his SIP and cut, cut it or he might have tried it on a 15 blade one that came out, but I know that they're pretty tough to do. You got to get them set. Just right.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 45:44

Yeah. Yeah. Why don't, and I hadn't had any issues doing my Toro 14 blades, um, on my Foley. And I mean, I got some ground down to 4. 6. I'm still able to get the relief on there.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 46:00

you know,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 46:01

I, and I thought, you know, cause it's tight, don't get me wrong. It's tight. And, um, I had one of the guys that didn't have it set up quite right. And I grabbed the backside of the next blade off all the way around. And he is like, what are we gonna do? Like, we're gonna have to get a new reel for this one.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 46:20

been there, done it.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 46:21

Yep. Yep. It's beyond fixing. Um, too much to, to grind out. Mm-Hmm.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 46:27

yeah, the cutting units, because everything back when I started was all welded frames, you know. There were no side plates and, and stuff that where you could adjust and no eccentrics in there. And, now you've got, everything's bolted together. You're in. Rebuilds are a lot easier and a lot quicker, I think, in my opinion. Especially with the Toros and, John Deere's come a long ways with their cutting units, especially from where they were in 2012, 2013 to where they're at now. Because the old units with the side plates, you hit a sprinkler head or somebody bumped them, they'd get knocked out of square

Trent Manning, CTEM: 47:10

oh yeah. Yeah.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 47:11

dropping them in the shop on the floor. And then they came out with the pins where they, alignment dolls. And so now they align when you put them together. So they, they hold their, once you level them up and stuff and square them up, get them all parallel, they stay in, locked in pretty good, GPS on the sprayers,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 47:32

Oh yeah. Yeah. Mm-Hmm?

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 47:34

huge. You know, something I haven't dabbled with yet, but I'm going to try to talk him into at least trying on the range because everybody else is doing it. But the robotic mores that they're putting out there and just let them go to town.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 47:48

Yeah. I mean, we hadn't tried it yet either. I know John, he's doing Yeah. This par three course or. Short game area, something, and they're mowing all the grass, except the greens with

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 48:03

Yep. I've seen you know, I worked at the Philadelphia cricket club back in 2000 and when did I go to 2009 through 2012 and I just seen recently where they have a fleet of the robotic mores that they're using for. their lawns and I believe they're using them up on their soccer field because they've got that one their one location down in Germantown with the nine holes and then they've got all the grass tennis courts and the soccer field and they're using them and I've seen a video where people were sitting on the porch watching the robotic mowers go back and forth mowing and nice and quiet don't make no noise and

Trent Manning, CTEM: 48:48

feedback that I've heard is membership at the golf course really likes the idea of robots. And you know, they think it's saving labor and that, you know, it's just a good appearance. It's green, you know, all, all those things that it's appealing to a lot of members that play golf,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 49:07

you know I often wonder I always you know Think of equipment managers as an environmentalist, um, and what we do, because we're always trying to, you know, recycle, protect you know, groundwater contamination and run off of chemicals and oils and fuels. And we do what we can to protect our environment and our facilities to the best of our ability. And then I think, all right, we're going green with all these robotic mowers and the solar panels, but what happens when all that stuff starts to Get to the point where we got to replace it and it needs to be recycled in that, you know I don't think anybody has a plan for the big solar panels When they get busted and if they have a recycling program, it's just like the batteries for the teslas I mean Are they recycling them? What are we going to do when all this starts to mount up? It's kind of like the, the old issue with the tires years ago. You know, nobody knew what to do with rubber tires, and then they started making, you know, grinding them up into chrome rubber and mixing it with sand and using it for top dressing for these synthetic range tees and sports fields. And, you know,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 50:26

making mulch out of it.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 50:28

you know, so I'm wondering, you know, where we're going to be at in the next 20, 30 years with all this electronic stuff. I

Trent Manning, CTEM: 50:37

a really good question. Cause yeah, I don't, I don't know. I hadn't heard what they're doing with any of that far as recycling And now the golf carts. I've went lithium and I mean, that's a lot of batteries. You think about all the golf carts in the world that have lithium batteries in them. Yeah, so what do you do with those in eight years

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 50:59

don't know, our if you guys use them up there or not, but we use the Han spray bugs and you know, they just came out, um, with the lithium batteries for those. And we, we bought it two sets, um, and we got them at a good deal to be like a beta test for them. And we run them, we run them about, four to five days a week. Yeah. out here and we all we have two big 5600 sprayers but all they are is just transport units to carry the chemical and they fill the spray bugs and so we went with the lithium now they supposed to lighten up the spray bug I think like 30 pounds lighter so they actually go a little faster they're more consistent going uphill um they don't slow down and the batteries are warrantied for 10 years.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 51:59

Oh, wow.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 52:01

So, I mean, they'll outlast the spray bug. So, I mean, I could order a bug without batteries and just move them from one unit to the next.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 52:10

Mm hmm Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 52:12

I think that's pretty good.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 52:14

I don't know if anybody else cares about this, but I do What kind of lifespan are you seeing on your spray bug?

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 52:20

I'm getting, we're usually replacing them every, every four years. But, I mean, I got some that are 2015, 2016 that were We're still running. The biggest issue that we ever had with them was the transmissions. And I think the last one we bought were two years ago. I think we bought, added two new ones to the fleet. And then we kept the two best ones for backups and then, um, put the other ones in our back building. But other than the transmission, you know, an occasional pump here there, or the handle. But then they made upgrades to the handles and we converted them. They haven't been a problem. And now with the adding the lithium batteries and lightening up the unit that's supposed to take a lot of strain off the transmission. So,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 53:19

Oh, okay. Yeah, it makes sense.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 53:21

so my one, the one tech in the shop, he's gotten really good at rebuilding them and he pulls them apart and they, they rebuild them. I mean, as long as you keep them clean and keep them serviced up, about the biggest thing that gives out is the trailer rust out.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 53:38

Yeah,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 53:39

keep up with the trailers and replace those every so often you're in good shape. But the bugs we're getting, you know, we're getting five, five, six years out of them, no problem. But our replacement schedule, I think calls for four.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 53:54

Okay. I was just curious. We got two last year And I mean, we've been really happy with them and not any issues, like you say, handle, but I mean, my, my handle problems were employee induced,

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 54:10

Yep.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 54:10

you know? Um, they were, yeah, pulling it behind the cart and they had the handle in the back, like laying on the tailgate of the cart. So when they turned, it just broke the handle off. What are you guys thinking?

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 54:24

A lot of ours used to be employee induced, but Once we started giving the one the one spray tech a little special treatment and, you know, they get a new cart and, you know, that person used to always get the old cart or they never got handed anything new. Give them the, give them a new sprayer, give them a new cart, and the next year when it came in, take that cart and put it down into the crew and give them another new one. Kept them and giving them the new stuff and showing them that, you know, trusted it on. And all of a sudden, you know, the, the mysterious breakdowns and stuff kind of went by the wayside.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 55:04

Oh, that's good. That's awesome.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 55:06

Just

Trent Manning, CTEM: 55:07

don't we've been, we've been going for almost an hour. You got any, you got anything else you want to hit real quick?

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 55:14

nah, I'm good. I mean,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 55:15

You're

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 55:16

I don't know if if this helps anybody or not, you know, but you know, we're just shooting the breeze and talking about where we come from and where we're at today. And, you know, so hopefully if they get anything out of it, hopefully technicians. equipment managers can that, that feel like you're overworked or really stressed or you don't have enough help. You know, think back to the days when I started, when you were your only guy and you didn't have an assistant and you didn't have a lift, you crawled on the ground for everything. So, you know, really, when I look at what we have and what other people have, you know, I'm really thankful for the industry and how it's evolved and where it's come to, um, today that people put lifts in shops for the technicians and, um, and want you to have help lifting things. And you know, so we're not getting the injuries and the stuff that we've, you know, had years ago. And so when you think you feel comfortable, When you think that, man, I'm in a crappy situation, let's think about when I used to crawl around on a dirt floor and try to change oil, you know.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 56:35

Oh yeah, no, and when you were talking about crawling around on the floor, I had flashbacks. We had a Toro 450. You know, and it's got the whatever 32 inch wide reels and there's one right in the center of the mower and crawling up under there trying to, you know, check it was a pain to adjust. Yeah, it was awful.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 56:57

try to run it up on a ramp backwards and

Trent Manning, CTEM: 57:00

Yeah. Yeah. Doing

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 57:01

up in the air a little higher.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 57:02

little bit of room.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 57:04

But,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 57:05

You know, and I think standards have definitely changed a lot, um, over the years too, I mean, higher expectations at clubs and, and a lot of that stuff. But. You know, I definitely don't want to go back to the day of not having a lift and crawling around on the floor

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 57:20

nope. And that's you know, that's, that's one reason why I can, I can respect the guys that, you know, complain about, you know, getting a piece of equipment and the, the reel's five thousandths out or ten thousandths out and, or it was 15 and they can only get it to within five. I can respect them wanting to get it, you know, dialed into zero and What I put a post up reminding people where that eccentric for the Toros came from. That was some work that Steve and Tucker had done back in 2012 when he was at the Ritz Carlton, when he was battling with the 5410 units. And, you know, so I can respect people wanting to dial everything in. Um, even though for me, I get it where. It's good for me. I don't need all the eccentrics. I'm not saying one day that I won't and I'm not saying that they're not needed. I'm just saying that me personally, I always seem to be the lucky one that my stuff that comes in isn't the stuff that's breaking that everybody's having the issues with and so I don't have the answer for them. And when they get their reels, they're 15 out, but when I get mine, they're five and I can dial it into within, you know, two or three. You know, I'm just lucky that way. So I guess God's God's blessed me and in some ways and other ways you know, I'm getting punished, but,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 58:46

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 58:47

you know, that's just the,

Trent Manning, CTEM: 58:49

Funny how all that works out. And

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 58:51

just the way the business goes, you know, but thank God for assistance and all the equipment that we have and just the, and the opportunities for education, what's available today out there through your chapters, through your. You know, local associations state, the national, you know, there's tons of education. Wouldn't have all that when we were back in my day. You learned it, by tearing it apart and putting it back together and, reading a book and didn't have the internet to surf back then either.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 59:25

yeah, that's I mean, something else, a huge change is the internet and yeah, technology at your fingertips. Fingertips and yeah, I remember those days of yeah getting a book out and trying to find what I was looking for And I don't even know what it was called. So you're going through all these books and yeah I don't I don't miss those days at all.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 59:44

But in the words of JR, we're just people making tall grass shorter. So, guys, if you take anything away from this out there, Don't let the work over stress you. Love your families. Get a good work life balance going. Because I'm going to tell you, when you're no longer at the job, ain't nobody going to look back and say, man, we sure miss him or he sure did a good job here. They will for until they find somebody else to take your spot. But, in this world, the way you treat people, your families. The time you spend with them, that's what's important. You're never going to get that back. You can always find a job. You can always come into work. It's always going to be there. But, family, they grow, they move, they get sick. You got to have that good, good balance and, and realize what's important. A job is important, but nothing should ever take the place of your family's and your personal life. Just keep the balance. Show your commitment to both, but just remember life is just a vapor.

Trent Manning, CTEM: 1:00:53

That's yeah words of wisdom right there from the wise and I couldn't agree more You know, and I wish I'd had that mindset, you know my whole life and I didn't But you only got a small amount of time with family and friends and just do it as much as you can.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 1:01:14

Yep. And I hadn't, I hadn't always been there or done it that way, but you know, I'm trying now before it's too late, you know?

Trent Manning, CTEM: 1:01:21

Oh yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much Skip for coming on. I really appreciate it. Um, I always enjoy talking with you and we'll see you next time.

Skip Heinz, CTEM: 1:01:32

yep. Thank you. Have a great one.

Trent Manning: 1:01:34

Thank you so much for listening to the Reel turf techs podcast. I hope you learned something today. Don't forget to subscribe. If you have any topics you'd like to discuss, or you'd like to be a guest, find us on Twitter at Reel turf techs.